2.5/165... try not to make me feel supper crappy Forum

[jenjen1234]

Ok so I don't want people Judging just give it to me straight...

I started college at the age of 17 coming from another country. In high school overseas my school was based only on math and science, I did very well though. I got into a good undergrad school, but i was not by any means ready for college, and had absolutely no idea what my major was about.

First of all I did not want to go to the states for university, but my father made me; so I did.

I started off polysci and i really hated it. My gpa was pretty low my first year, and was alot worse my second year.

My junior year I changed my major, and was diagnosed with ADHD.

When I started my History major, my grades got much better- also because of ADHD diagnosis.

But then my last semester in undergrad I didnt do that well, but I still passed everything (had to leave mid-semeser to go overseas as my father was Ill I left the week before spring break and came back the week after spring break).

I graduated with a 2.5 which is shitty i know, and I was on academic probation during one of my semesters when pretty much everything in my life was crap. (my Boyfriend- later fiance- and now husband was overseas, so everything was just all over the place in my life during college)

I never used to party, but i still didnt do as well as others.

I developed a strong writing ability in my last few years of college (it doesn't show in the post because I am not focussing on writing properly)

After I graduated, decided to go into a Paralegal program at my university, and my grades were very good. I am at a 3.6 now (and it will go up once i finish my last 2 courses)

I started my own business at the beginning of 2014, and was quite successful.

I worked at a law firm for 5 months, and left in order to work on starting up my business.

I did a legal internship during my undergrad at an immigration firm.

I was the president of an organization at my school- most of my work was pushing human rights and humanitarian aid in a certain region that will not be named. I did a lot of fundraising, and community work to help the cause. btw I am "diverse" because of it.

I know I am very intelligent, I do not need anyone to criticize that statement, as none of you really know me, so you could not judge my abilities. My issue is I "learned" how to study way too late in my undergraduate career.

Im am PTing around a 165 and taking the december exam.

I have 4 stellar recommendations coming my way (1 undergrad major, 1 undergrad non major, 1 professional, and 1 from paralegal)

so my question is what are my chances? I am by no means looking to attend an amazing school, I know that is not a possibility for me. but what are my chances in getting into say, John Marshall, Kent, Depaul, Loyola etc. These are the schools I am applying to, but I am just really feeling down these days about my prospects because all these TLS people are like extremely dedicated and intelligent students, and one can not help but compare their faults to others' successes.

If anyone really has knowledge on the subject, and/or wants more information please message me, I would appreciate any advice or help anyone could give me.

[twenty]

Honestly, you have no business going to law school.

That said, you'll go to law school anyway, so here's my advice: Go to ANY law school that will give you a full ride, preferably with a living stipend (though not if the full ride comes with a really terrible scholarship stipulation). Getting a worthless law degree for 50-60k is far more preferable to getting a worthless law degree for 220k-250k.

[guano]

Honestly, you have no business going to law school.

I was never athletic enough to be a pro snowboarder. You should likewise forget about your dream and instead develop more reasonable career goals

[jenjen1234]

Honestly, you have no business going to law school.

That said, you'll go to law school anyway, so here's my advice: Go to ANY law school that will give you a full ride, preferably with a living stipend (though not if the full ride comes with a really terrible scholarship stipulation). Getting a worthless law degree for 50-60k is far more preferable to getting a worthless law degree for 220k-250k.

Like I said you really dont know me. If you did you wouldn't say that. Of course I accept your advice, and I understand that what you are saying is 100% true in nearly all cases; but my former inadequacies have nothing to do with the person that I am now, so in terms of being successful in school- I would prefer that people do not comment on that, I asked about getting in not about if I "have any business going". My undergraduate in general was a mistake. If I started school undecided, or in a major that I actually knew something about and wanted to study, I would not be in this situation. I am very smart, I know that I am, and I know that once/if I am accepted I will be successful in my endeavors.

Luckily, I do not need a full ride I just want to know what others think of my prospects of getting into the schools that I have listed.

I do not want anyone commenting on debt, or on job prospects. I plan on opening my own firm upon gradation, and in terms of debt I will be fine.

[RodneyBoonfield]

Honestly, you have no business going to law school.

I was never athletic enough to be a pro snowboarder. You should likewise forget about your dream and instead develop more reasonable career goals

While I don't disagree with your overall advice against going to law school, this analogy is stupid and exaggerates the situation.

[rinkrat19]

In my experience, there are mistakes a good writer makes when he's being careless, and then there's just bad writing. Your post looks like the latter. Law school is an incredibly bad idea for a bad writer.

But, ASSUMING that your post was extremely misleading and that you are in fact correct about being a decent writer...

Do not even think about law school until you get your LSAT above 170 (preferably well above it). Then go to a school that minimizes your debt, maximizes your employment odds, and places grads in a region to which you have ties and in which you would like to live.

Your GPA is terrible but there are a few good schools that will overlook it with a high enough LSAT. Getting the LSAT up high enough is the key to law school not being a catastrophically bad decision.

(And that still assumes that you can write properly.)

[jenjen1234]

In my experience, there are mistakes a good writer makes when he's being careless, and then there's just bad writing. Your post looks like the latter. Law school is an incredibly bad idea for a bad writer.

But, ASSUMING that your post was extremely misleading and that you are in fact correct about being a decent writer...

Do not even think about law school until you get your LSAT above 170 (preferably well above it). Then go to a school that minimizes your debt, maximizes your employment odds, and places grads in a region to which you have ties and in which you would like to live.

Your GPA is terrible but there are a few good schools that will overlook it with a high enough LSAT. Getting the LSAT up high enough is the key to law school not being a catastrophically bad decision.

(And that still assumes that you can write properly.)

Wow thanks a lot! lol I told you I was quickly writing it... it was informal and quick trust me... Throughout my major in history, I ALWAYS did exceptionally well in writing, at least according to my professors and my research paper grades :-/

What is this like the make people feel like crap thread? Please at least try to be nice

[blameitonbuddy]

I'll preface this by saying that this site, while good in some aspects, is not for those with thin-skin...as evidenced by the utterly unhelpful and snarky post above. You seem far more self-aware than most TSL'ers, so congrats. That being said, the advice of being debt-averse is sound. With a 165 you should be able to get substantial money at schools that are less than ideal. But if your dream is to practice law (and given your experience it seems this isn't some pipedream--i.e. being a professional snow boarder), I say go for it. If you graduate law school with little to no debt, all you have forfeited is a few years that you would have spent bouncing between entry level positions...jobs that you could theoretically leap-frog with a bolstered resume. I'm not saying that is likely, but it's plausible.

[RodneyBoonfield]

Lol. The irony here is that this is the worst sentence of the post:

I know I am very intelligent, I do not need anyone to criticize that statement, as none of you really know me, so you could not judge my abilities.

That said, judging someone's syntax and grammar abilities by looking at a poast is like judging someone's natural scent when theyre on the shitter. In my experience, writing law school exams did not require any sort of eloquence. My best law school exam grade came from an exam which I walked out of thinking that my professor was going to tell me to see a neurologist based on how I put paragraphs together.

Only go for free unless you get a miracle T14 scholly.

[twenty]

When I say you have no business going to law school, I'm not saying you as an individual would suck at law, (though I tend to agree with rinkrat to a large extent), I'm saying if you have a 2.5 and a 165, you have no business going to any school that would accept you with those numbers. Since you can't change the 2.5, and because the likelihood of you actually getting a 172+ is so low, you don't have any business going somewhere and paying through the nose for a 15%-30% chance of getting a job that would justify the cost.

[guano]

I started my own business at the beginning of 2014, and was quite successful.

ok

I know I am very intelligent, I do not need anyone to criticize that statement, as none of you really know me, so you could not judge my abilities.

we'll just gave to take your word for this... and ignore unbiased evaluations like your GPA and LSAT

what are my chances in getting into say, John Marshall, Kent, Depaul, Loyola etc.

you should be less concerned about your chances getting into such crap schools, and more concerned about your chances when you graduate from said school

all these TLS people are like extremely dedicated and intelligent students, and one can not help but compare their faults to others' successes.

doesn't this contradict your earlier assessment of your own abilities?

I know this probably comes off as mean, but, you need to be more realistic

[sasquatchsam]

I am not an expert but these are a few things I think you should keep in mind as you are exploring your options.

1. Law schools only care about your LSAC GPA and your highest LSAT score. There is nothing you can do to boost your GPA once you have graduated with your first four-year degree (which it sounds like you have). Make sure to maximize your LSAT score. Study like $100,000 is on the line...because it is.

2. Even if you have a 200k laying around, it doesn't mean law school will be free. It does give you the freedom to go anywhere you want without accruing much debt but you are not going to be able to get into a school that will be worth paying sticker price with your GPA.

My suggestion for you would be to look at attending a law school for as little as possible with decent employment stats. Look at some public schools in more rural states where you will have less competition and a strong alumni base.

By the way...I think the reason everyone is jumping on you and telling you that you shouldn't go to law school is you presented yourself in a rather negative fashion. Telling a group of overachievers that you are "very intelligent" sets you up for a lot of criticism (especially when you don't have the GPA/LSAT/PHD to back it up)

[lhanvt13]

This thread is gold.
Also, don't consider going until you hit 170+
as posters above said, you need to aim for better schools and get money from them (which is highly unlikely without a 170+ given your gpa)

[francesfarmer]

I don't know why everyone's being so hard on OP. OP, don't get down on yourself. Just retake the LSAT until you can get into Northwestern, OK? Even if it takes a long time. Otherwise law school won't really be worth it. And in the meantime, you might decide you want to do something else with your life, and that would be OK too.

[francesfarmer]

My suggestion for you would be to look at attending a law school for as little as possible with decent employment stats. Look at some public schools in more rural states where you will have less competition and a strong alumni base.

I agree with the rest of your post but an international student going to a rural law school in a location in which she presumably has no ties is definitely not TCR

[guano]

This thread is gold.
Also, don't consider going until you hit 170+
as posters above said, you need to aim for better schools and get money from them (which is highly unlikely without a 170+ given your gpa)

The problem is that with OP's GPA, financial aid will be limited at even the crappiest schools

[MoMettaMonk]

The best thing that you can possibly do is increase your LSAT score. Once you get over a 166/167 some half-decent options start opening up for you, especially with how rare LSATs in that range and up are becoming. I assume you're trying to stay around Chicago based on your school choices. Unfortunately none of the schools that you listed have particularly great employment prospects, so if you are ABSOLUTELY SET on attending one you need to make sure that you minimize debt and get the best stipulations on any scholarship money that you get.

[sasquatchsam]

My suggestion for you would be to look at attending a law school for as little as possible with decent employment stats. Look at some public schools in more rural states where you will have less competition and a strong alumni base.

I agree with the rest of your post but an international student going to a rural law school in a location in which she presumably has no ties is definitely not TCR

You might be right I was mainly thinking about what I would do in OP's shoes. That being said, my experience has been that these law schools are often starving for diverse candidates and may throw $$$ at applicants with unique backgrounds.

Bottom line is that OP should go to a school for cheap or free that is at least decently respected and more importantly has at least decent employment prospects.

[lhanvt13]

This thread is gold.
Also, don't consider going until you hit 170+
as posters above said, you need to aim for better schools and get money from them (which is highly unlikely without a 170+ given your gpa)

The problem is that with OP's GPA, financial aid will be limited at even the crappiest schools

Also, many crappy schools give you a very slim chance of keeping your money after 1 year

[rinkrat19]

In my experience, there are mistakes a good writer makes when he's being careless, and then there's just bad writing. Your post looks like the latter. Law school is an incredibly bad idea for a bad writer.

But, ASSUMING that your post was extremely misleading and that you are in fact correct about being a decent writer...

Do not even think about law school until you get your LSAT above 170 (preferably well above it). Then go to a school that minimizes your debt, maximizes your employment odds, and places grads in a region to which you have ties and in which you would like to live.

Your GPA is terrible but there are a few good schools that will overlook it with a high enough LSAT. Getting the LSAT up high enough is the key to law school not being a catastrophically bad decision.

(And that still assumes that you can write properly.)

Wow thanks a lot! lol I told you I was quickly writing it... it was informal and quick trust me... Throughout my major in history, I ALWAYS did exceptionally well in writing, at least according to my professors and my research paper grades :-/

What is this like the make people feel like crap thread? Please at least try to be nice

Way to ignore all the other valid advice in my post just because your fee-fees got hurt. Welcome to the internet.

[blameitonbuddy]

In my experience, there are mistakes a good writer makes when he's being careless, and then there's just bad writing. Your post looks like the latter. Law school is an incredibly bad idea for a bad writer.

But, ASSUMING that your post was extremely misleading and that you are in fact correct about being a decent writer...

Do not even think about law school until you get your LSAT above 170 (preferably well above it). Then go to a school that minimizes your debt, maximizes your employment odds, and places grads in a region to which you have ties and in which you would like to live.

Your GPA is terrible but there are a few good schools that will overlook it with a high enough LSAT. Getting the LSAT up high enough is the key to law school not being a catastrophically bad decision.

(And that still assumes that you can write properly.)

Wow thanks a lot! lol I told you I was quickly writing it... it was informal and quick trust me... Throughout my major in history, I ALWAYS did exceptionally well in writing, at least according to my professors and my research paper grades :-/

What is this like the make people feel like crap thread? Please at least try to be nice

Way to ignore all the other valid advice in my post just because your fee-fees got hurt. Welcome to the internet.

Yes, "welcome to the Internet" where people hide behind anonymity as they desperately try to make themselves feel better by being condescending pricks. The OP is sufficiently self-aware, as evidenced by her concessions that her GPA is bad and she should have worked harder/done better/etc. The fact of the matter is what's done is done. You can't change the past, so lambasting someone for their previous indiscretions isn't constructive.

OP has worked in the legal field, presumably seen what it's like, and decided that's what s/he wants to do. At 22, going to law school for next-to-nothing (regardless or where/what said school may be) is far from a terrible decision. As I mentioned before, if someone wants to follow their dream and it doesn't involve saddling themselves with excessive debt and/or reducing the likelihood of future successes, it shouldn't serve as grounds for being chastised.

OP asked for advice on what legitimate options s/he may have given the current variables in play. There are options. Wouldn't it be a bit more constructive to give a cost-benefit analysis of them?

[pretzel]

Way to ignore all the other valid advice in my post just because your fee-fees got hurt. Welcome to the internet.

I have lurked on TLS for a long, long time, and this is without a doubt my favorite post ever. Literally LOLd in my office.

[jenjen1234]

In my experience, there are mistakes a good writer makes when he's being careless, and then there's just bad writing. Your post looks like the latter. Law school is an incredibly bad idea for a bad writer.

But, ASSUMING that your post was extremely misleading and that you are in fact correct about being a decent writer...

Do not even think about law school until you get your LSAT above 170 (preferably well above it). Then go to a school that minimizes your debt, maximizes your employment odds, and places grads in a region to which you have ties and in which you would like to live.

Your GPA is terrible but there are a few good schools that will overlook it with a high enough LSAT. Getting the LSAT up high enough is the key to law school not being a catastrophically bad decision.

(And that still assumes that you can write properly.)

Wow thanks a lot! lol I told you I was quickly writing it... it was informal and quick trust me... Throughout my major in history, I ALWAYS did exceptionally well in writing, at least according to my professors and my research paper grades :-/

What is this like the make people feel like crap thread? Please at least try to be nice

Way to ignore all the other valid advice in my post just because your fee-fees got hurt. Welcome to the internet.

I did not ignore your advice, I commented on what I felt was really mean.
I agree a good place to start would be to work on my LSAT score. Maybe I could bring it up to 170 from now until December. Only time will tell, but thanks anyways for the advice I am realllllly trying to bring it up as far as possible. Hopefully I can.

[jenjen1234]

This post is seriously overdue. I knew the people on TLS were extremely brutal and often quick to judge with utmost cruelty towards others. For anyone in a similar situation that reads this thread in the future, I just want you to know that the individuals on here typically have no idea what they are talking about. I ended up getting into a tier 4 law school with some scholarship money and I did very well my first year, ranking in the top 5%. I transferred to the top 10 school of my dreams, and am proud of my decision to stick it through. Contrary to the often baseless input of many TLSers, success is easy to achieve if you really want it. Do not let people lower your esteem or tell you what you can not do. Only you know your capabilities. Take everything these people say with a grain of salt and pursue your dreams.

[Mack.Hambleton]

This post is seriously overdue. I knew the people on TLS were extremely brutal and often quick to judge with utmost cruelty towards others. For anyone in a similar situation that reads this thread in the future, I just want you to know that the individuals on here typically have no idea what they are talking about. I ended up getting into a tier 4 law school with some scholarship money and I did very well my first year, ranking in the top 5%. I transferred to the top 10 school of my dreams, and am proud of my decision to stick it through. Contrary to the often baseless input of many TLSers, success is easy to achieve if you really want it. Do not let people lower your esteem or tell you what you can not do. Only you know your capabilities. Take everything these people say with a grain of salt and pursue your dreams.

Just win the lottery bro

I did it