Top Law Schools

I'm wondering how important a candidate's background and intent is to a law school.

I'm graduating with a BS in Electrical Engineering (I'm a female) from a top state school and already have a BA in English Lit (3.9 GPA). My overall GPA is 3.74. My intent is to practice patent law (specifically EE).

I have 2.5 years of work experience in the field of EE (as well as 1-2 years experience in business development/marketing).

I have yet to take the LSAT but I predict my score will be in the 160 range (I'm pushing for 170 but don't know if that is a possibility).

I have scoured LSN for people coming from a similar background (arts and science), and have yet to find even a female who majored in EE.

I want to get some opinions on to what extent my unique background can override a sub-median LSAT score at a top 15.

Thanks!

LSAT and cumulative GPA (as calculated by LSAC) are virtually everything, with LSAT being the most important factor of all. Soft factors like majors, work experience, etc., will play at most a very minor role in your admissions outcomes.

First things first, you need to take a timed diagnostic LSAT. I believe Kaplan locations offer one proctored diagnostic LSAT for free. This will be the only thing of value Kaplan will ever have to offer you, so don't even think about signing up for their garbage classes. Do whatever it takes to get your LSAT score as high as possible. Visit the LSAT forum for advice on good courses and self-study plans. Some people on this forum have prepped for more than six months and have done all of the nearly 7,000 available LSAT questions, many of them twice. Don't just put in a few hours a week for two months and think you've done much prep.

As a clarifying question -- Was the English degree already conferred on you and you have gone back to complete the EE degree now? This would make a massive difference in your LSAC GPA.

2013applicant wrote:As a clarifying question -- Was the English degree already conferred on you and you have gone back to complete the EE degree now? This would make a massive difference in your LSAC GPA.

Oops. I obviously skimmed too quickly. Yes, OP, your GPA for law school admissions purposes is the GPA you had (from all college courses taken, CC included, and calculated on the LSAC's +/- scale) at the time your first degree was officially conferred.

Here's a useful tool to help you calculate your LSDAS GPA: http://www.lawschoolpredictor.com/wp-co ... ulator.htm. Don't bother with the rest of the site. The predictor portion is pretty worthless.

2013applicant wrote:As a clarifying question -- Was the English degree already conferred on you and you have gone back to complete the EE degree now? This would make a massive difference in your LSAC GPA.

Thanks for the tips! My degrees are from the same school (double major), so I only have one cumulative GPA.

You might be in luck if only your BA is counted. Then your LSAC GPA is 3.9, and your BS makes you patent eligible for EE, so you're in a great spot.

Not sure about the female STEM boost -- I dont think it will overcome a low LSAT for admissions, but it may impress employers in IP/patent who are looking for some gender diversity. Why do you think you cant score 170+ on the LSAT? You have a solid chance at Stanford with your dual degrees, a 3.9, and your WE so dont settle.

FWIW I was STEM/Humanities double. Didnt really have any impact on my cycle, but I think it makes me more versatile.

Also lol @ the clear anecdotal GPA rigor divide between english major (3.9) and EE (~3.5-3.55). The single LSAC gpa is such horse shit.

If 170 isn't a possibility then it is very likely that you aren't studying enough or are studying inefficiently.

WokeUpInACar wrote:If 170 isn't a possibility then it is very likely that you aren't studying enough or are studying inefficiently.

Unfortunately I only have 2 months to study. Confident I could prob break 170 if given more time. Maybe I should wait for Dec?

kooshy wrote:

WokeUpInACar wrote:If 170 isn't a possibility then it is very likely that you aren't studying enough or are studying inefficiently.

Unfortunately I only have 2 months to study. Confident I could prob break 170 if given more time. Maybe I should wait for Dec?

Then take more time. The difference between a 172 and a 166 would probably be sticker at Cornell vs large scholarships at MVP.

jbagelboy wrote:Also lol @ the clear anecdotal GPA rigor divide between english major (3.9) and EE (~3.5-3.55). The single LSAC gpa is such horse shit.

Agreed about the single-GPA bullshit - it kills me that my LSDAS GPA is calculated entirely from my crappy 20-year old uGPA, but my 4-year old physics master's with a 3.9 is a "soft factor", at best.

Although, in the OP's case, the "rigor divide" (.35-.4) is smaller than I would have expected, considering that English and EE are probably near the extremes of what people would consider "easy" and "hard" undergrad degrees.

OP - I would suggest studying your ass off for October, including continuing your prep while you're waiting for the results to come out. That way, you can be spring-loaded to retake in December if needed. Your GPA puts you in the running for almost anywhere, so it would be a shame to get shut out from a lot of your options if you were to only get into the low 160s in October.

kooshy wrote:

2013applicant wrote:As a clarifying question -- Was the English degree already conferred on you and you have gone back to complete the EE degree now? This would make a massive difference in your LSAC GPA.

Thanks for the tips! My degrees are from the same school (double major), so I only have one cumulative GPA.

Yes, but if you officially received your BA (i.e. graduated) before continuing with the BS, then, for law school admissions purposes, your GPA was permanently frozen at the time your first degree was granted. Nothing you've done since that time -- no matter at which school -- would have any effect on your LSDAS GPA.

Ti Malice wrote:

kooshy wrote:

2013applicant wrote:As a clarifying question -- Was the English degree already conferred on you and you have gone back to complete the EE degree now? This would make a massive difference in your LSAC GPA.

Thanks for the tips! My degrees are from the same school (double major), so I only have one cumulative GPA.

Yes, but if you officially received your BA (i.e. graduated) before continuing with the BS, then, for law school admissions purposes, your GPA was permanently frozen at the time your first degree was granted. Nothing you've done since that time -- no matter at which school -- would have any effect on your LSDAS GPA.

This is correct.

dowu wrote:

Ti Malice wrote:

kooshy wrote:

2013applicant wrote:As a clarifying question -- Was the English degree already conferred on you and you have gone back to complete the EE degree now? This would make a massive difference in your LSAC GPA.

Thanks for the tips! My degrees are from the same school (double major), so I only have one cumulative GPA.

Yes, but if you officially received your BA (i.e. graduated) before continuing with the BS, then, for law school admissions purposes, your GPA was permanently frozen at the time your first degree was granted. Nothing you've done since that time -- no matter at which school -- would have any effect on your LSDAS GPA.

This is correct.

I'm hoping the OP clarifies. She's talking about a "double major", which is just a single degree/diploma. But she also refers to her "degrees", so I'm confused.

If you get a double baccalaureate (two separate diplomas), do they usually confer the first one as soon as you've completed the necessary courses, or do they wait to confer them both at the same time? I think you have to declare your intention to pursue a double baccalaureate, so it would make since for the school to grant both degrees at the same time so you only have to go through the graduation process/paperwork once, even though you might not complete both sets of requirements in the same semester.

[

Yes, but if you officially received your BA (i.e. graduated) before continuing with the BS, then, for law school admissions purposes, your GPA was permanently frozen at the time your first degree was granted. Nothing you've done since that time -- no matter at which school -- would have any effect on your LSDAS GPA.[/quote]
This is correct.[/quote]

I'm hoping the OP clarifies. She's talking about a "double major", which is just a single degree/diploma. But she also refers to her "degrees", so I'm confused.

If you get a double baccalaureate (two separate diplomas), do they usually confer the first one as soon as you've completed the necessary courses, or do they wait to confer them both at the same time? I think you have to declare your intention to pursue a double baccalaureate, so it would make since for the school to grant both degrees at the same time so you only have to go through the graduation process/paperwork once, even though you might not complete both sets of requirements in the same semester.[/quote]

Sorry for the confusion; I'm unfamiliar with the way LSAC calculates GPA. Although I was originally a dual degree double major (BA/BS), I received my BA, graduated, and returned to school to contined my BS. Does this mean that despite the fact that I have 1 transcript with one GPA from both majors, LSDAS GPA will only consider the GPA of the completed degree (BA) and disregard the most recent semester grades after having received that degree? I guess I need to check out that GPA calculation tool linked to above.

All grades up until you received your first degree count, all after do not.

WokeUpInACar wrote:All grades up until you received your first degree count, all after do not.

Wish I had known that--would have put more time into studying for the LSAT! Well that certainly helps my gpa..

kooshy wrote: Although I was originally a dual degree double major (BA/BS), I received my BA, graduated, and returned to school to contined my BS. Does this mean that despite the fact that I have 1 transcript with one GPA from both majors, LSDAS GPA will only consider the GPA of the completed degree (BA) and disregard the most recent semester grades after having received that degree? I guess I need to check out that GPA calculation tool linked to above.

Yes, if you were awarded your BA before going back for your BS, then none of the courses you took after being awarded the BA will count toward your LSDAS GPA. Even though your transcripts are all from the same school, LSAC will look at the "date awarded" for your BA and know to ignore the subsequent grades.

kooshy wrote:

WokeUpInACar wrote:All grades up until you received your first degree count, all after do not.

Wish I had known that--would have put more time into studying for the LSAT! Well that certainly helps my gpa..

Given this information you should absolutely wait until December. Breaking 171 gives you a legitimate shot at HYS and they are the only schools that care at all about retakes. Make the LSAT your life for about 4 months, crush it in December, and you'll be looking at full rides at t14 schools and the possibility of HYS.

WokeUpInACar wrote:

kooshy wrote:

WokeUpInACar wrote:All grades up until you received your first degree count, all after do not.

Wish I had known that--would have put more time into studying for the LSAT! Well that certainly helps my gpa..

Given this information you should absolutely wait until December. Breaking 171 gives you a legitimate shot at HYS and they are the only schools that care at all about retakes. Make the LSAT your life for about 4 months, crush it in December, and you'll be looking at full rides at t14 schools and the possibility of HYS.

So if shooting for that caliber, taking in oct and dec is much worse than just taking in dec?

kooshy wrote:

WokeUpInACar wrote:All grades up until you received your first degree count, all after do not.

Wish I had known that--would have put more time into studying for the LSAT! Well that certainly helps my gpa..

There is still time. Take the LSAT three times. Seriously.

Whats your GPA for all of the classes taken before your first bachelors degree was awarded?

kooshy wrote:

WokeUpInACar wrote:

kooshy wrote:

WokeUpInACar wrote:All grades up until you received your first degree count, all after do not.

Wish I had known that--would have put more time into studying for the LSAT! Well that certainly helps my gpa..

Given this information you should absolutely wait until December. Breaking 171 gives you a legitimate shot at HYS and they are the only schools that care at all about retakes. Make the LSAT your life for about 4 months, crush it in December, and you'll be looking at full rides at t14 schools and the possibility of HYS.

So if shooting for that caliber, taking in oct and dec is much worse than just taking in dec?

This would be a very close call. Definitely not much worse. If you were consistently PTing at 172+ in time to register for October I'd go ahead and take it, but not otherwise.

WokeUpInACar wrote:

kooshy wrote:

WokeUpInACar wrote:

kooshy wrote:
Wish I had known that--would have put more time into studying for the LSAT! Well that certainly helps my gpa..

Given this information you should absolutely wait until December. Breaking 171 gives you a legitimate shot at HYS and they are the only schools that care at all about retakes. Make the LSAT your life for about 4 months, crush it in December, and you'll be looking at full rides at t14 schools and the possibility of HYS.

So if shooting for that caliber, taking in oct and dec is much worse than just taking in dec?

This would be a very close call. Definitely not much worse. If you were consistently PTing at 172+ in time to register for October I'd go ahead and take it, but not otherwise.

Listen to her.

dowu wrote:Whats your GPA for all of the classes taken before your first bachelors degree was awarded?

When I originally stated 3.9 I was only accounting for the classes that went towards Engl degree. Because I also took EE classes within that time, overall GPA was 3.788.