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Boost for Top Undergrad School??
Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 6:35 pm
by o'kane
I went to a U.S. News top 5 rated university in the midwest, a university whose students believe that their grades have not been subject to the inflation seen elsewhere. Whether this is true not, who knows. But at any rate, do you think there is much of a boost for students from top schools not called HYP or S? And do law schools look at differences in grading tendencies at different schools?
Re: Boost for Top Undergrad School??
Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 6:35 pm
by dr123
not particularly
Re: Boost for Top Undergrad School??
Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 6:37 pm
by rinkrat19
No.
Re: Boost for Top Undergrad School??
Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 6:40 pm
by dr123
PS you could have just said you go to UChicago. Theres only one midwestern T5 university.
Re: Boost for Top Undergrad School??
Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 6:53 pm
by chem
o'kane wrote:I went to a U.S. News top 5 rated university in the midwest, a university whose students believe that their grades have not been subject to the inflation seen elsewhere. Whether this is true not, who knows. All I know is at Chicago we are thought to think for ourselves, and ask the questions that others are afraid to ask. No, I have not heard of the search function
Re: Boost for Top Undergrad School??
Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 7:00 pm
by akg144
They r wrong it does help, they have a methodology that accounts for a school's grading system and juxtaposes your GPA with other students who have attended. It's probably not a major factor but according to Anna Ivey's book it is most definitely a consideration.
Re: Boost for Top Undergrad School??
Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 7:01 pm
by hephaestus
Search function.
Re: Boost for Top Undergrad School??
Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 7:27 pm
by abl
It makes a difference for at least HYS (law schools). It's hard to say how much of a difference it makes elsewhere.
Re: Boost for Top Undergrad School??
Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 7:33 pm
by Motivator9
I tend to disagree. I think it certainly does, assuming your in the targeted law school's numbers when applying. I strengthens your GPA compared to other students with lower ranked schools.
Also, don't schools look the average lsat scores for UG schools as one way to gauge their student body overall? I would think it would be higher for a top five school. But again, it's not going to be considered a strong soft.
Re: Boost for Top Undergrad School??
Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 7:37 pm
by rinkrat19
If there were any boost, there would be a pattern (which someone would have discovered and documented) of applicants being accepted to different schools that their numbers would suggest, according to undergrad. There is not. Law schools report median GPA to USNWR, not median GPA-adjusted-for-RIGOR.
Re: Boost for Top Undergrad School??
Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 7:43 pm
by Motivator9
rinkrat19 wrote:If there were any boost, there would be a pattern (which someone would have discovered and documented) of applicants being accepted to different schools that their numbers would suggest, according to undergrad. There is not. Law schools report median GPA to USNWR, not median GPA-adjusted-for-RIGOR.
I agree that there is no "pattern", but I would feel better applying to law school coming from a higher ranked school because I wouldn't have to worry as much about people thinking that my GPA is inflated because of my UG.
Re: Boost for Top Undergrad School??
Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 7:43 pm
by MyNameIsFlynn!
rinkrat19 wrote:If there were any boost, there would be a pattern (which someone would have discovered and documented) of applicants being accepted to different schools that their numbers would suggest, according to undergrad. There is not. Law schools report median GPA to USNWR, not median GPA-adjusted-for-RIGOR.
There's decent evidence that H (possibly YS, don't remember for sure) favors Ivy undergrads. This question has been asked and discussed at length many times, so OP, check out the search function.
Re: Boost for Top Undergrad School??
Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 7:49 pm
by Nova
Motivator9 wrote:I tend to disagree. I think it certainly does, assuming your in the targeted law school's numbers when applying. I strengthens your GPA compared to other students with lower ranked schools.
Many top schools inflate GPAs...
Solely for the purposes of law school admissions, I would rather have an above median GPA from a community college and then a state school than a below median GPA from UChi.
Re: Boost for Top Undergrad School??
Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 7:52 pm
by Motivator9
Nova wrote:Motivator9 wrote:I tend to disagree. I think it certainly does, assuming your in the targeted law school's numbers when applying. I strengthens your GPA compared to other students with lower ranked schools.
Many top schools inflate GPAs...
Soley for the purposes of law school admissions, I would rather bhave an above median GPA from a community college and then a state school than a below median GPA from UChi.
Really? I think it's easier to graduate cum laude from a smaller and less recognized small than from a top 25 school, and I would think that that would be pretty obvious to admission counselors, IMO.
Re: Boost for Top Undergrad School??
Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 10:08 pm
by sinfiery
Motivator9 wrote:
Really? I think it's easier to graduate cum laude from a smaller and less recognized small than from a top 25 school, and I would think that that would be pretty obvious to admission counselors, IMO.
The average GPA for a top schools graduate is significantly higher than that of a less recognized school.
That isn't argument enough, but there is clearly some grey area in this issue. Also, if they had an increased intellectual environment for four years in UG, they would disproportionately score higher on the LSAT versus their actual potential because the same skills they put more time into by their being in said environment translate into doing well on the LSAT.
And on and on. These arguments never end, so at the end of the day the HYPS kids get a slight boost at some schools. Kinda. But only after raw numbers being above/below median are accounted for. Even at HYS, the 173/3.9 is always going to have a better chance at admission than the 173/3.75 HYPS UG
Re: Boost for Top Undergrad School??
Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 10:30 pm
by Nova
Medians are where the money is at
Re: Boost for Top Undergrad School??
Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 10:32 pm
by KevinP
I'm of the opinion that UG absolutely does not matter, sans a few rare exceptions. And I've been looking at law school numbers and analyzing the data for a long time.
Motivator9 wrote:
Really? I think it's easier to graduate cum laude from a smaller and less recognized small than from a top 25 school, and I would think that that would be pretty obvious to admission counselors, IMO.
Why should this matter to admission counselors? U.S News does not adjust for UG rigor.
Re: Boost for Top Undergrad School??
Posted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 12:03 am
by Motivator9
at HYS, the 173/3.9 is always going to have a better chance at admission than the 173/3.75 HYPS UG[/quote]
I wouldn't disagree with this.
Re: Boost for Top Undergrad School??
Posted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 12:09 am
by Motivator9
KevinP wrote:I'm of the opinion that UG absolutely does not matter, sans a few rare exceptions. And I've been looking at law school numbers and analyzing the data for a long time.
Motivator9 wrote:
Really? I think it's easier to graduate cum laude from a smaller and less recognized small than from a top 25 school, and I would think that that would be pretty obvious to admission counselors, IMO.
Why should this matter to admission counselors? U.S News does not adjust for UG rigor.
Well, if Im an employer, and I had to decide between two students with similar grades in law school, I might take their UG into account. Maybe admission counselors figure that your UG institution could possibly improve your job prospects later on, especially if one does not want to work at a law firm after getting a JD. Sure, this consideration might be taken into account in a few number of situations, but I think it's plausible to think that admission counselors might take it into consideration .
Re: Boost for Top Undergrad School??
Posted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 12:09 am
by romothesavior
Motivator9 wrote:Really? I think it's easier to graduate cum laude from a smaller and less recognized small than from a top 25 school, and I would think that that would be pretty obvious to admission counselors, IMO.
This assumes they care about what's harder or easier or more prestigious or any of that. It's (almost exclusively) about the stats.
Re: Boost for Top Undergrad School??
Posted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 12:12 am
by Motivator9
romothesavior wrote:Motivator9 wrote:Really? I think it's easier to graduate cum laude from a smaller and less recognized small than from a top 25 school, and I would think that that would be pretty obvious to admission counselors, IMO.
This assumes they care about what's harder or easier or more prestigious or any of that. It's (almost exclusively) about the stats.
I wish we could get an admission counselor to weigh, where's Mike Spivey at?
Re: Boost for Top Undergrad School??
Posted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 1:04 am
by Ti Malice
o'kane wrote:I went to a U.S. News top 5 rated university in the midwest, a university whose students believe that their grades have not been subject to the inflation seen elsewhere.
Chicago's students are wrong. Chicago deserved that reputation some number of years ago, but not anymore. While it's not as bad of an inflator as the worst offenders, its median GPA is still pushing 3.4 these days.
Re: Boost for Top Undergrad School??
Posted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 11:56 am
by jbagelboy
Omg stoppp this is so lame and every educated individual reading this is thinking the same thing. UChicago students need to get over themselves. Your school wasn't that much harder, you're just nerdier and spent less time above ground.
I attended to a "T5" private school (and my cycle played out well, but not above what my numbers would allow). I predict you will see a small boost at Uchi law and its peers (columbia/harvard) just because your a known quantity and your LoR profs went to the same lame coke parties during grad school in the 80s, but it wont overcome a low GPA.
Re: Boost for Top Undergrad School??
Posted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 2:33 pm
by hohenheim
romothesavior wrote:Motivator9 wrote:Really? I think it's easier to graduate cum laude from a smaller and less recognized small than from a top 25 school, and I would think that that would be pretty obvious to admission counselors, IMO.
This assumes they care about what's harder or easier or more prestigious or any of that. It's (almost exclusively) about the stats.
I'm inclined to think that if the numbers are equal, then prestige starts coming into play, but medians are definitely king
Re: Boost for Top Undergrad School??
Posted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 4:29 pm
by jbagelboy
Motivator9 wrote:KevinP wrote:I'm of the opinion that UG absolutely does not matter, sans a few rare exceptions. And I've been looking at law school numbers and analyzing the data for a long time.
Motivator9 wrote:
Really? I think it's easier to graduate cum laude from a smaller and less recognized small than from a top 25 school, and I would think that that would be pretty obvious to admission counselors, IMO.
Why should this matter to admission counselors? U.S News does not adjust for UG rigor.
Well, if Im an employer, and I had to decide between two students with similar grades in law school, I might take their UG into account. Maybe admission counselors figure that your UG institution could possibly improve your job prospects later on, especially if one does not want to work at a law firm after getting a JD. Sure, this consideration might be taken into account in a few number of situations, but I think it's plausible to think that admission counselors might take it into consideration .
I agree Undergrad will have an impact for employers/OCI (as would anything on your resume..), but adcoms are NOT law firms or hiring partners/judges, and the logical jump that schools would accept the most employable candidates is fallacious so long as USNWR privileges UGPA/LSAT over employment data. So that fact and analogy tells nothing really