Top Law Schools

Posted: **Tue Jul 23, 2013 10:33 am**

Your numbers are solid, but Yale is so unpredictable that it's impossible to estimate who is gonna get in. It's definitely worth the app tho, good luck and congrats.

Posted: **Tue Jul 23, 2013 10:35 am**

On the basis of numbers alone, not very good. Without great softs (or even with great softs...) it'll probably come down to luck.

--ImageRemoved--

You're golden at H on down, though, as I'm sure you already know.

Posted: **Tue Jul 23, 2013 10:40 am**

The poster above is correct. You are above both medians numbers-wise so that will definitely help your cause. It's just so difficult to predict with Yale, but I can't imagine you have worse than a 50/50 shot, which is really the best most people can hope for.

Best of luck!

Posted: **Tue Jul 23, 2013 10:42 am**

Being above both medians means you will at least get a dart with your name on it when Yale's faculty reviews you.

Harvard is the most likely outcome.

Posted: **Tue Jul 23, 2013 10:54 am**

Posted: **Tue Jul 23, 2013 11:01 am**

You've got as good a shot as anybody of getting into Yale, but as others have expressed ITT, Yale is incredibly unpredictable with its admissions decisions. Applicants with perfect numbers have been rejected / wait-listed. You'd be able to get corporate BigLaw from either school, although Harvard obviously places larger numbers of students into BigLaw each year (given its larger class size).

Posted: **Tue Jul 23, 2013 11:27 am**

No point gunning for Yale if you want corporate transactional.

Take the Hamilton (full ride named scholarship) at Columbia if you get it. If your interests only lie in large corporate law firms, theres no better deal.

Posted: **Tue Jul 23, 2013 11:48 am**

jbagelboy wrote:No point gunning for Yale if you want corporate transactional.

Take the Hamilton (full ride named scholarship) at Columbia if you get it. If your interests only lie in large corporate law firms, theres no better deal.

Posted: **Tue Jul 23, 2013 3:48 pm**

As a BYU student, this should be especially relevant to you.

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 9&t=213417

Posted: **Tue Jul 23, 2013 3:53 pm**

taylor447 wrote:I appreciate the feedback everyone. That's helpful. Yale is apparently a haven for future law academia right? If my interests lie in corporate transactional biglaw in NY or Boston, probably mergers and acquisitions, would I be better off at Harvard anyway (large alumni network, brand in business world)?

I would take Yale over Harvard regardless of your interests (I'm a biased party, but most would agree). However, I agree with the other folks that if you want corporate transactional work, your first goal should be a full-ride at CCN and P at the least. You're not aiming for anything where YHS give you an outsize advantage -- namely, legal academia, prestigious gov't/PI, or clerkships (pointless for transactional work). Your goal should be to graduate from one of the aforementioned schools with nothing more than COL debt.

Posted: **Tue Jul 23, 2013 4:18 pm**

Posted: **Tue Jul 23, 2013 6:31 pm**

Thanks again for all the input. Is there really no significant advantage of HYS in corporate transactional over CCN? My perception was that top firms approach HYS in a unique way.

Posted: **Tue Jul 23, 2013 6:34 pm**

My bad... thats what I get for thinking I remembered reading something somewhere sometime

Posted: **Tue Jul 23, 2013 7:25 pm**

About 75% of Columbia's class has gotten Vault 100 summer associate positions in recent years

Posted: **Wed Jul 24, 2013 12:08 am**

ManOfTheMinute wrote:
taylor447 wrote:Thanks again for all the input. Is there really no significant advantage of HYS in corporate transactional over CCN? My perception was that top firms approach HYS in a unique way.
If you want transactional in NYC, Columbia will get at least the top 50% there. If you wanna move outside of NYC, CCN isn't nearly as transportable as HYS.

HYS can get a job in NYC at any place in the class...

Well MOTM.. I know its your responsibility to separate CLS from Harvard or Stanford as much as possible. But lets be real -- 50%? More like 80%.

Its not unique for firm work. Big transactional practices love Columbia grads. Whats different is in HYS grading systems, but the reality is Harvard is not guaranteed either. HYS definitely have an advantage in secondary markets, but in NYC (where the major corporate transactional firms are based), seems fungible based on firm partners and the data.

Now I definitely appreciate the advantages and flexibility of Harvard but strictly in this area, Are those advantages worth over $200,000?

Posted: **Wed Jul 24, 2013 1:24 am**

Generally, I think if a student is pretty confident or very confident he/she wants NYC Biglaw, then Harvard < Butler. If he/she wants to practice somewhere else, wants Big Fed, clerkships, elite PI or academic, or is completely unsure, Harvard > Butler. Just my opinion.

Posted: **Wed Jul 24, 2013 3:42 am**

You've done all you can do, just apply for the T14, hell, even just T6, and see what happens. You'll be in at Harvard on down 100%.

Posted: **Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:46 am**

jbagelboy wrote:
ManOfTheMinute wrote:
taylor447 wrote:Thanks again for all the input. Is there really no significant advantage of HYS in corporate transactional over CCN? My perception was that top firms approach HYS in a unique way.
If you want transactional in NYC, Columbia will get at least the top 50% there. If you wanna move outside of NYC, CCN isn't nearly as transportable as HYS.

HYS can get a job in NYC at any place in the class...
Well MOTM.. I know its your responsibility to separate CLS from Harvard or Stanford as much as possible. But lets be real -- 50%? More like 80%.

Its not unique for firm work. Big transactional practices love Columbia grads. Whats different is in HYS grading systems, but the reality is Harvard is not guaranteed either. HYS definitely have an advantage in secondary markets, but in NYC (where the major corporate transactional firms are based), seems fungible based on firm partners and the data.

Now I definitely appreciate the advantages and flexibility of Harvard but strictly in this area, Are those advantages worth over $200,000?

I am an alum of one of the very top schools, and I agree with Bagelboy that 50% for Columbia seems like an extremely low estimate, especially after taking a look at Law School Transparency. I also think I disagree with the portability argument. Both Harvard and Columbia have fantastic west coast networks, and I know plenty of people from both schools that got jobs in California. If that's what you want, you can make it happen. I also know a not insignificant number of people from Harvard who struck out with big firms. It's not as rosy for everyone as the TLS echo chamber would have you believe. After having gone through the whole thing (+1 year for my MBA), my opinion is that Harvard and Columbia are probably the two most similar of the top schools and are equals when it comes to corporate firm hiring. Clerkship opportunities are a bit better at Harvard, but if your interest is transactional biglaw and you can do it debt free at Columbia, I'd say do it and never look back.

Posted: **Wed Jul 24, 2013 9:54 am**

That's all great stuff. Clearing job prospects and financial aid, does anyone have a good feel for the columbia soft factors--quality of living, student body culture, etc? The building itself is rather ugly (which may not be relevant), but to do CLS enjoy columbia? The degree is outstanding and the job prospects solid, but do they like their three years? The reason I ask is that my father was admitted to CLS back in the day with half tuition, along with Michigan and Virginia. He intended on CLS but when he visited, morningside heights was "dreary" as he put it and the students, when he talked to them, seemed like they were "getting through," rather than loving their JD years. He visited Uva and everyone loved it--Charlottesville, softball, etc. (ended up at uva). That was an age ago. And I have met some CLS's who seem to love it. Any thoughts? Perhaps it boils down to simple individual preference--city life vs other settings.

Posted: **Wed Jul 24, 2013 1:25 pm**

taylor447 wrote:That's all great stuff. Clearing job prospects and financial aid, does anyone have a good feel for the columbia soft factors--quality of living, student body culture, etc? The building itself is rather ugly (which may not be relevant), but to do CLS enjoy columbia? The degree is outstanding and the job prospects solid, but do they like their three years? The reason I ask is that my father was admitted to CLS back in the day with half tuition, along with Michigan and Virginia. He intended on CLS but when he visited, morningside heights was "dreary" as he put it and the students, when he talked to them, seemed like they were "getting through," rather than loving their JD years. He visited Uva and everyone loved it--Charlottesville, softball, etc. (ended up at uva). That was an age ago. And I have met some CLS's who seem to love it. Any thoughts? Perhaps it boils down to simple individual preference--city life vs other settings.

Attending CLS '16 here, so I have a clear hopeful bias, but the general feeling Ive received from visiting, talking to ppl on here, and my future classmates, is that the atmosphere has evolved since the mid 90s and is now much more laid back than the paper-chase days. There are always horror stories (like the ATL article on the CLS girl who requested UG transcripts prior to admitting her peers into a study group), but people seem a lot happier than I would have imagined, and as TS often notes, the superior job prospects actually abet the competitive aura since most people are not as scared of striking out. Morningside heights has also come a long way since your father would have been looking at CLS, and manhattan as a whole is a much safer, cleaner, & happier place (albeit more expensive) than it was in the 1980s.

My views have also evolved on this issue. When choosing between Berkeley and Columbia, my primary fear about choosing CLS was the student body and the city. Berkeley seemed much more my speed. However, after meeting more of my classmates and networking a bit, Im more confident that Ill find my niche and have a positive experience. Moreover I have tons o friends in the city and Im moving w/ my SO, and law school isnt about recreating somefalse image of college life (UVA). My friend who's a 2L was pretty negative on CLS and that informed many of my early views, but Ive come to understand that he mostly just doesnt enjoy the law or the pedagogic experience in general, and that wont be a problem for me.

So I wouldnt worry about a perceived CLS "social" scene, and as Borg stated, biglaw placement (NYC) is comparable to Harvards in all the important ways

ETA: as far as the aesthetic of the structure is concerned, the rest of the main campus more than compensates for it IMO

Posted: **Wed Jul 24, 2013 1:51 pm**

jbagelboy wrote:the ATL article on the CLS girl who requested UG transcripts prior to admitting her peers into a study group

Link pls.

Posted: **Wed Jul 24, 2013 2:01 pm**

cerealdan wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:the ATL article on the CLS girl who requested UG transcripts prior to admitting her peers into a study group
Link pls.

here you go

Posted: **Wed Jul 24, 2013 3:56 pm**

jbagelboy wrote:
cerealdan wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:the ATL article on the CLS girl who requested UG transcripts prior to admitting her peers into a study group
Link pls.
here you go

this is the best

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Re: Yale Law -- 3.93 gpa and 175 lsat

Re: Yale Law -- 3.93 gpa and 175 lsat

Re: Yale Law -- 3.93 gpa and 175 lsat

Re: Yale Law -- 3.93 gpa and 175 lsat

Re: Yale Law -- 3.93 gpa and 175 lsat

Re: Yale Law -- 3.93 gpa and 175 lsat

Re: Yale Law -- 3.93 gpa and 175 lsat

Re: Yale Law -- 3.93 gpa and 175 lsat

Re: Yale Law -- 3.93 gpa and 175 lsat

Re: Yale Law -- 3.93 gpa and 175 lsat

Re: Yale Law -- 3.93 gpa and 175 lsat

Re: Yale Law -- 3.93 gpa and 175 lsat

Re: Yale Law -- 3.93 gpa and 175 lsat

Re: Yale Law -- 3.93 gpa and 175 lsat

Re: Yale Law -- 3.93 gpa and 175 lsat

Re: Yale Law -- 3.93 gpa and 175 lsat

Re: Yale Law -- 3.93 gpa and 175 lsat

Re: Yale Law -- 3.93 gpa and 175 lsat

Re: Yale Law -- 3.93 gpa and 175 lsat

Re: Yale Law -- 3.93 gpa and 175 lsat

Re: Yale Law -- 3.93 gpa and 175 lsat

Re: Yale Law -- 3.93 gpa and 175 lsat

Re: Yale Law -- 3.93 gpa and 175 lsat

Re: Yale Law -- 3.93 gpa and 175 lsat