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What are my odds at a top 10 school based on my softs?
Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 8:42 pm
by afitouri
3.6 GPA / 168 LSAT. But please read on.
Worked through college, my senior year I was a marketing intern at a non-profit. Was an electronics salesperson prior to that.
Am 1/2 Libyan and a first generation immigrant. Have traveled there numerous times.
Come from a broken family and have witnessed HARD drug abuse and alcoholism, and have experienced homelessness for periods of about 6 months. After my freshman year in high school we were just above the poverty line, and in the past few years we have been definitively impoverished.
4 Letters of recommendation, one from a J.D, and two are absolutely resounded (2 from professors, one from a boss, and one from a family friend who has his own practice, who I also worked for).
So, basically I'm in a situation where my GPA is right around 25th percentile and the LSAT is near 50th. So I'm on the edge of barely getting in. Do you think these softs can tip me over?
What do you think could make it happen?
Re: What are my odds at a top 10 school based on my softs?
Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 9:01 pm
by Motivator9
Chances are not too stellar but you could get in with an ED. However, you wouldn't get that much $$$ . Is retaking not an option? Hitting then 170+ benchmark would change things.
170:
http://mylsn.info/a5yapc
168:
http://mylsn.info/ec3cws
Re: What are my odds at a top 10 school based on my softs?
Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 9:27 pm
by bananapeanutbutter
If you identify as African-American and not Middle Eastern you may be in every where based on URM. Very few AA males have a 168. I'd personally retake for a 172 to give HYS a median.
Re: What are my odds at a top 10 school based on my softs?
Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 9:45 pm
by afitouri
bananapeanutbutter wrote:If you identify as African-American and not Middle Eastern you may be in every where based on URM. Very few AA males have a 168. I'd personally retake for a 172 to give HYS a median.
I have white skin, but I have considered reporting two or more races. It bothers me because a Libyan friend that I grew up with, who comes from an influential family in Libya that is now part of the new government (and who is well-to-do) is black and can reap the rewards it.
Re: What are my odds at a top 10 school based on my softs?
Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 9:50 pm
by hohenheim
Yeah, just because your black friend gets a boost doesn't mean you should claim AA on your apps.
I don't think those softs will make a significant difference, so your best bet is a retake. It's annoying, but your options are completely different with just 2 more points. Good luck!
Re: What are my odds at a top 10 school based on my softs?
Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 10:25 pm
by jbagelboy
I dont really understand these communities where homeless/impoverished families have influential attorneys as family friends to write LoRs (america is rarely that economically desegregated/structurally equitable) but Ill reserve those judgements to myself and take your story at face value.
Whoever said 170 is key for top schools was right. I believe with your compelling backstory and record of working thru college, you can easily overcome the sub-median GPA, but you'll need the LSAT. Write a damn good diversity essay, work your experiences and your family history with your interest in law ( preferably not corporate transactional, pick a more convincing field for the story) into your PS.
And dont worry about your friend and his families' newfound revolutionary prestige. Cabinets and bureacracies rise and fall every few yrs like clockwork in the post qaddafi world
Re: What are my odds at a top 10 school based on my softs?
Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 11:19 pm
by Cobretti
jbagelboy wrote:And dont worry about your friend and his families' newfound revolutionary prestige. Cabinets and bureacracies rise and fall every few yrs like clockwork in the post qaddafi world
this is kind of dark...
Re: What are my odds at a top 10 school based on my softs?
Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 11:23 pm
by Motivator9
jbagelboy wrote:I dont really understand these communities where homeless/impoverished families have influential attorneys as family friends to write LoRs (america is rarely that economically desegregated/structurally equitable) but Ill reserve those judgements to myself and take your story at face value.
Whoever said 170 is key for top schools was right. I believe with your compelling backstory and record of working thru college, you can easily overcome the sub-median GPA, but you'll need the LSAT. Write a damn good diversity essay, work your experiences and your family history with your interest in law ( preferably not corporate transactional, pick a more convincing field for the story) into your PS.
And dont worry about your friend and his families' newfound revolutionary prestige. Cabinets and bureacracies rise and fall every few yrs like clockwork in the post qaddafi world
Yes! Dont worry about your friend and his story. Worry about what's in your hands.
Re: What are my odds at a top 10 school based on my softs?
Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 11:25 pm
by Clearly
Retake.
Re: What are my odds at a top 10 school based on my softs?
Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 11:34 pm
by Tiago Splitter
jbagelboy wrote:I dont really understand these communities where homeless/impoverished families have influential attorneys as family friends to write LoRs (america is rarely that economically desegregated/structurally equitable) but Ill reserve those judgements to myself and take your story at face value.
Well to be fair two of the LOR's are resounded.
Re: What are my odds at a top 10 school based on my softs?
Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 12:54 am
by afitouri
Tiago Splitter wrote:jbagelboy wrote:I dont really understand these communities where homeless/impoverished families have influential attorneys as family friends to write LoRs (america is rarely that economically desegregated/structurally equitable) but Ill reserve those judgements to myself and take your story at face value.
Well to be fair two of the LOR's are resounded.
Sorry, meant *resounding*
And I know the lawyer because as a child he was accused falsely of terrorism by the FBI and I was the only friend of his son's who didn't abandon him during that period.
Re: What are my odds at a top 10 school based on my softs?
Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 12:59 am
by sublime
..
Re: What are my odds at a top 10 school based on my softs?
Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 1:01 pm
by TheThriller
First off, don't claim AA status.
Re: What are my odds at a top 10 school based on my softs?
Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 8:34 pm
by afitouri
sublime wrote:afitouri wrote:Tiago Splitter wrote:jbagelboy wrote:I dont really understand these communities where homeless/impoverished families have influential attorneys as family friends to write LoRs (america is rarely that economically desegregated/structurally equitable) but Ill reserve those judgements to myself and take your story at face value.
Well to be fair two of the LOR's are resounded.
Sorry, meant *resounding*
And I know the lawyer because as a child he was accused falsely of terrorism by the FBI and I was the only friend of his son's who didn't abandon him during that period.
Seriously though, you may be able to get in at lower T14 like Cornell or Georgetown, but you really should retake. A 17- would do wonders.
My only issue with this is that I studied for a year to get my 168. Initially I planned to retake 6 months later but my test scores weren't consistent enough for me to feel comfortable with the retake because of the risk that I scored lower than 168.
Should I just readjust my goals and shoot for Cornell, Georgetown, Northwestern or UT Austin?
Re: What are my odds at a top 10 school based on my softs?
Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 8:51 pm
by IAFG
Is growing up poor still a soft for a college grad applying to professional school?
Re: What are my odds at a top 10 school based on my softs?
Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 9:00 pm
by Motivator9
You say you studied for a year, but do you feel like you could've improved more? What were you PTing at before the test? Did you exhaust all of your material?
Re: What are my odds at a top 10 school based on my softs?
Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 10:31 pm
by mr.hands
TheThriller wrote:First off, don't claim AA status.
Re: What are my odds at a top 10 school based on my softs?
Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 10:36 pm
by Blessedassurance
afitouri wrote:bananapeanutbutter wrote:If you identify as African-American and not Middle Eastern you may be in every where based on URM. Very few AA males have a 168. I'd personally retake for a 172 to give HYS a median.
I have white skin, but I have considered reporting two or more races. It bothers me because a Libyan friend that I grew up with, who comes from an influential family in Libya that is now part of the new government (and who is well-to-do) is black and can reap the rewards it.
didn't you do this schtick last year?
Re: What are my odds at a top 10 school based on my softs?
Posted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 1:14 am
by dsc1943
mr.hands wrote:TheThriller wrote:First off, don't claim AA status.
Why the hell shouldn't he? Last time I checked Libya is in Africa therefore the OP is both African and American hence African American. If the box said black then he shouldn't check it but it doesn't so he should.
Re: What are my odds at a top 10 school based on my softs?
Posted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 1:19 am
by Motivator9
dsc1943 wrote:mr.hands wrote:TheThriller wrote:First off, don't claim AA status.
Why the hell shouldn't he? Last time I checked Libya is in Africa therefore the OP is both African and American hence African American. If the box said black then he shouldn't check it but it doesn't so he should.
So Caucasian South Africans are URMs?
Re: What are my odds at a top 10 school based on my softs?
Posted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 1:25 am
by KevinP
dsc1943 wrote:mr.hands wrote:TheThriller wrote:First off, don't claim AA status.
Why the hell shouldn't he? Last time I checked Libya is in Africa therefore the OP is both African and American hence African American. If the box said black then he shouldn't check it but it doesn't so he should.
Because that's not the definition of African American typically used to describe race.
White – A person having origins in any of the original peoples of Europe, the Middle East, or
North Africa.
Black or African American – A person having origins in any of the Black racial groups of Africa.
https://www.census.gov/population/race/about/
Re: What are my odds at a top 10 school based on my softs?
Posted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 1:32 am
by 90convoy
dsc1943 wrote:mr.hands wrote:TheThriller wrote:First off, don't claim AA status.
Why the hell shouldn't he? Last time I checked Libya is in Africa therefore the OP is both African and American hence African American. If the box said black then he shouldn't check it but it doesn't so he should.
You gotta be black to claim African American. But wait!!...Black and African American aren't necessarily the same thing, i.e. Aborigine) By black I mean either have noticeably black features, or if you don't you must have the ability to provide reasonable proof that you are black (parents, grandparents, etc.)
So is OP black? No. OP is Libyan American or North African. As dumb as it sounds there is actually a difference between being North African American and African American.
Re: What are my odds at a top 10 school based on my softs?
Posted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 1:35 am
by BigZuck
The problem with re-adjusting those goals is that you probably still won't get in to those schools other than UT (a very poor choice for someone without substantial ties to TX and a strong desire to live and work in Texas long term) and maybe Cornell around sticker.
I'll ignore the whole "I really want to get in to a T10 like Michigan, golly gee it would suck to have to go to Northwestern" thing.
Retake. Even if you snuck in to one of these schools it would be at (or very close) to sticker and that is almost always a bad idea. The fact that you don't have any savings or a wealthy family to help bring down your debt (or bail you out if you struck out) is all the more reason to get a higher LSAT score for scholarship purposes. If you can't score higher then you should probably aim lower or don't go to law school.
Re: What are my odds at a top 10 school based on my softs?
Posted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 2:52 pm
by TheThriller
dsc1943 wrote:mr.hands wrote:TheThriller wrote:First off, don't claim AA status.
Why the hell shouldn't he? Last time I checked Libya is in Africa therefore the OP is both African and American hence African American. If the box said black then he shouldn't check it but it doesn't so he should.
Are you kidding me?
You have to realize that AA status is as much geographic as it is social/cultural. Libya may be in Africa but so is Egypt. Culturally and socially the experiences of an Egyptian, a Libyan, a Sudanese and a South African are different. In this day in age, African American means far more than what country your parents/grand/greatgrand came from.
And speaking of South Africans, I have a friend from South Africa who is white, should he claim AA status because he's from Africa?
Re: What are my odds at a top 10 school based on my softs?
Posted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 7:21 pm
by dsc1943
Motivator9 wrote:dsc1943 wrote:mr.hands wrote:TheThriller wrote:First off, don't claim AA status.
Why the hell shouldn't he? Last time I checked Libya is in Africa therefore the OP is both African and American hence African American. If the box said black then he shouldn't check it but it doesn't so he should.
So Caucasian South Africans are URMs?
I would guess that yes white south africans are under represented and definitely in the minority at US law schools