Top Law Schools

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No chance at YS and your retakes basically axe you at H unless you have super extraordinary softs.


Strong chance everywhere else with really only NYU guaranteeing an acceptance. You'll be in the YP/WL game.




LOL at UPenn

Enjoy Columbia!

Could also go for the full ride at NU

What were your other two scores?

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sinfiery wrote:No chance at YS and your retakes basically axe you at H unless you have super extraordinary softs.


Strong chance everywhere else with really only NYU guaranteeing an acceptance. You'll be in the YP/WL game.



LOL at UPenn

Why did you say the retakes axe him at Harvard? Doesn't it matter what they were, or is it just that he retook it...?

I think HYS is out with the general GPA floors, but you can get into CCN.

The-Specs wrote:

t-14orbust wrote:What were your other two scores?

162, 164

Awesome retake score with the 176, congrats! And good luck with your cycle - you should have some great options.

Ruluo wrote:
Why did you say the retakes axe him at Harvard? Doesn't it matter what they were, or is it just that he retook it...?

I took a jump. If it were 171/3/6 it may matter less but from experience, they definitely cared atleast a bit about 167--176. Not that a otherwise strong application can't get into H with a retake involved by any stretch of the imagination but in addition to that GPA and 3 scores, it would take a very strong application.

similar numbers and also gunning for H. will be watching your cycle, and good luck on it!

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The-Specs wrote:Does my GPA make it nearly impossible for me to break into the top 3 even with Harvard and Yale's LSAT 75th percentile falling or is there still a slight chance?

Your chances at Y and S are essentially nil, because both schools have pretty hard 3.8 GPA floors for non-URMs. Someone on TLS apparently got into SLS with a 3.5x this year, but that's extremely unusual. I've never heard of it happening with YLS.

Also, you shouldn't really view YLS's LSAT 75th as "falling." It's been either 176 or 177 for many years now, and given the fact that YLS is one of the three least predictable T14 schools as far as numbers are concerned, it doesn't matter either way. YLS routinely rejects applicants with 177+ LSAT scores. If YLS were more about pure numbers, it could easily have 177 and probably even 178 as its LSAT 75th percentile every year.

With H, however, such changes are more significant, because its admissions are much more numbers-driven. Because of its huge class size, a shrinking applicant pool puts considerable pressure on H to maintain its numbers. Applicants with 3.6x GPAs and high LSATs have done pretty well over the last couple of cycles. Even a few with 3.5x GPAs have been admitted, though chances decline dramatically under 3.6. With a likely further contraction of the applicant pool next year, however, your chances will be as good as ever. It will still be a reach for you, but it's definitely worth the app. Apply to Y and S as well if you feel like you might someday regret not having taken the chance, but just know that acceptances are extremely unlikely from either.

I will be applying to UVA for sure because I love The school but where else should I be looking? I guess the overall question is how much are my GPA and Retakes going to hurt me in the T3 specifically and the T14 generally?

As for the rest of the T14, you should just apply everywhere. No one can really say with any certainty what effects your retakes will have at a given school. Berkeley will probably pass on your GPA, and UVA and Penn will probably play their ridiculous yield-protection games. You'll need to write convincing "Why Penn/UVA?" essays to avoid a likely WL at either. You should apply even to T14 schools you wouldn't be crazy about attending, because you might receive scholarship offers that help you negotiate better offers at the schools you prefer.

nebula666 wrote: Could also go for the full ride at NU

Wouldn't hurt to apply for it, but it's very unlikely with a GPA that low.

Not answering your question, but can you tell us what you did differently for the third attempt? That is a huge jump. Congrats.

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Good job, we have a very similar retake situation!

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Ti Malice wrote:

The-Specs wrote:Does my GPA make it nearly impossible for me to break into the top 3 even with Harvard and Yale's LSAT 75th percentile falling or is there still a slight chance?

Also, you shouldn't really view YLS's LSAT 75th as "falling." It's been either 176 or 177 for many years now, and given the fact that YLS is one of the three least predictable T14 schools as far as numbers are concerned, it doesn't matter either way. YLS routinely rejects applicants with 177+ LSAT scores. If YLS were more about pure numbers, it could easily have 177 and probably even 178 as its LSAT 75th percentile every year.

Just for shits and giggles, I decided to play God, aka Yale admissions officer. LSN currently lists 27 people as accepted--3 URMs, overall medians of 174/3.9. I decided to rework the data to see what you would come up with if Yale's acceptances were purely based on numbers. I assumed acceptance = matriculation except where otherwise indicated--I know Yale's yield isn't 100% but it's close enough for government work.

Cynical median manipulation: n=30, 4 URMS, 3.99/177 (3.90/4.09, 174/179). Actual acceptance rate: 8/30.
Just strongest numbers: n=30, 4 URMS, 3.92/177 (3.89/3.99, 175/178). Actual acceptance rate: 10/30.

If you're wondering why the cynical median manipulation doesn't actually look all that manipulated/doesn't look all that different from the other one, it's because it's pretty hard to manipulate your numbers if your target median is a 177. There just aren't enough applicants to do so.

The conclusion is basically one everyone is already aware of: Yale could easily (easily) raise its median to 175 without batting an eye. They don't do so basically because Yale basically does whatever the fuck it wants. Or in a more detailed way, they already have the highest medians and the championship belt in the prestige game, so they can afford to just take whoever they like, and the numbers will work out for them because everyone wants to go there. Your numbers aren't part of a calculation there, just another thing they either like or dislike about you. As much as I hate to say it, it makes them the most "holistic" admissions process, even if otherwise great students can't even dream of being accepted. In that respect, we probably owe them a debt of gratitude for not just dickslapping us by having absurd medians when they totally could.

Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:

Ti Malice wrote:

The-Specs wrote:Does my GPA make it nearly impossible for me to break into the top 3 even with Harvard and Yale's LSAT 75th percentile falling or is there still a slight chance?

Also, you shouldn't really view YLS's LSAT 75th as "falling." It's been either 176 or 177 for many years now, and given the fact that YLS is one of the three least predictable T14 schools as far as numbers are concerned, it doesn't matter either way. YLS routinely rejects applicants with 177+ LSAT scores. If YLS were more about pure numbers, it could easily have 177 and probably even 178 as its LSAT 75th percentile every year.

Just for shits and giggles, I decided to play God, aka Yale admissions officer. LSN currently lists 27 people as accepted--3 URMs, overall medians of 174/3.9. I decided to rework the data to see what you would come up with if Yale's acceptances were purely based on numbers. I assumed acceptance = matriculation except where otherwise indicated--I know Yale's yield isn't 100% but it's close enough for government work.

Cynical median manipulation: n=30, 4 URMS, 3.99/177 (3.90/4.09, 174/179). Actual acceptance rate: 8/30.
Just strongest numbers: n=30, 4 URMS, 3.92/177 (3.89/3.99, 175/178). Actual acceptance rate: 10/30.

If you're wondering why the cynical median manipulation doesn't actually look all that manipulated/doesn't look all that different from the other one, it's because it's pretty hard to manipulate your numbers if your target median is a 177. There just aren't enough applicants to do so.

The conclusion is basically one everyone is already aware of: Yale could easily (easily) raise its median to 175 without batting an eye. They don't do so basically because Yale basically does whatever the fuck it wants. Or in a more detailed way, they already have the highest medians and the championship belt in the prestige game, so they can afford to just take whoever they like, and the numbers will work out for them because everyone wants to go there. Your numbers aren't part of a calculation there, just another thing they either like or dislike about you. As much as I hate to say it, it makes them the most "holistic" admissions process, even if otherwise great students can't even dream of being accepted. In that respect, we probably owe them a debt of gratitude for not just dickslapping us by having absurd medians when they totally could.

Nice post. Appreciate the work here.