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Do you think I have a chance at a Hamilton?
Chances of a lower scholly at Columbia?
What score do you think would make the Hamilton possible?
What score do you think would make the Hamilton probable?
3 months until October. Should I retake?
I scored at the low end of my score band, but if I fixed some timing issues, I could potentially raise it as much as 6 points (I have scored higher than that on timed PTs in the past) However, I really don't want to pay $165 and go back into LSAT purgatory.

yellowumbrella wrote:Do you think I have a chance at a Hamilton?
Chances of a lower scholly at Columbia?
What score do you think would make the Hamilton possible?
What score do you think would make the Hamilton probable?
3 months until October. Should I retake?
I scored at the low end of my score band, but if I fixed some timing issues, I could potentially raise it as much as 6 points (I have scored higher than that on timed PTs in the past) However, I really don't want to pay $165 and go back into LSAT purgatory.

I'm not an URM expert so I'll let someone else answer your questions.

Her'es what I have to say though: if you're at the lower end of your scoring band, I absolutely think you should retake. I know it's a frightening and dreaded thought, but honestly it will take so much pressure off of you. You're already at a great place, and having a 17X will seriously cement your chances everywhere (you'll probs be Yale bound, but I'm a huge splitter so my knowledge of T6 schools is limited, hahhaa).

I understand the feeling of not wanting to retake, though. I went through the same thing - scored in the lower end of my range. I retook and it was seriously the best decision I could have ever made. If you're worried about timing, I would recommend doing PTs with 5 minutes shaved off each section, until you get used to that. It helped me immensely, I had at least a minute or two left on each section to go over questions or just to collect myself and calm down a little bit.

crumpetsandtea wrote:

yellowumbrella wrote:Do you think I have a chance at a Hamilton?
Chances of a lower scholly at Columbia?
What score do you think would make the Hamilton possible?
What score do you think would make the Hamilton probable?
3 months until October. Should I retake?
I scored at the low end of my score band, but if I fixed some timing issues, I could potentially raise it as much as 6 points (I have scored higher than that on timed PTs in the past) However, I really don't want to pay $165 and go back into LSAT purgatory.

I'm not an URM expert so I'll let someone else answer your questions.

Her'es what I have to say though: if you're at the lower end of your scoring band, I absolutely think you should retake. I know it's a frightening and dreaded thought, but honestly it will take so much pressure off of you. You're already at a great place, and having a 17X will seriously cement your chances everywhere (you'll probs be Yale bound, but I'm a huge splitter so my knowledge of T6 schools is limited, hahhaa).

I understand the feeling of not wanting to retake, though. I went through the same thing - scored in the lower end of my range. I retook and it was seriously the best decision I could have ever made. If you're worried about timing, I would recommend doing PTs with 5 minutes shaved off each section, until you get used to that. It helped me immensely, I had at least a minute or two left on each section to go over questions or just to collect myself and calm down a little bit.

Thanks so much for your advice crumpets! I really think I'm leaning towards a retake. If I do retake, I will definitely follow your advice and shave off 5 minutes when I practice. Anyone else have an opinion on this?

yellowumbrella wrote:

crumpetsandtea wrote:

yellowumbrella wrote:Do you think I have a chance at a Hamilton?
Chances of a lower scholly at Columbia?
What score do you think would make the Hamilton possible?
What score do you think would make the Hamilton probable?
3 months until October. Should I retake?
I scored at the low end of my score band, but if I fixed some timing issues, I could potentially raise it as much as 6 points (I have scored higher than that on timed PTs in the past) However, I really don't want to pay $165 and go back into LSAT purgatory.

I'm not an URM expert so I'll let someone else answer your questions.

Her'es what I have to say though: if you're at the lower end of your scoring band, I absolutely think you should retake. I know it's a frightening and dreaded thought, but honestly it will take so much pressure off of you. You're already at a great place, and having a 17X will seriously cement your chances everywhere (you'll probs be Yale bound, but I'm a huge splitter so my knowledge of T6 schools is limited, hahhaa).

I understand the feeling of not wanting to retake, though. I went through the same thing - scored in the lower end of my range. I retook and it was seriously the best decision I could have ever made. If you're worried about timing, I would recommend doing PTs with 5 minutes shaved off each section, until you get used to that. It helped me immensely, I had at least a minute or two left on each section to go over questions or just to collect myself and calm down a little bit.

Thanks so much for your advice crumpets! I really think I'm leaning towards a retake. If I do retake, I will definitely follow your advice and shave off 5 minutes when I practice. Anyone else have an opinion on this?

30 minute PT sections is TCR. That is how I studied.

$165 and three months of your life is so worth the possible $$$ and peace of mind.

yellowumbrella wrote:Thanks so much for your advice crumpets! I really think I'm leaning towards a retake. If I do retake, I will definitely follow your advice and shave off 5 minutes when I practice. Anyone else have an opinion on this?

Glad I could help. If you get used to 5 min, I'd say try and shave 10 min off. If you can do that and maintain a 170+ average, you will be GOLDEN for test day.

yellowumbrella wrote:

crumpetsandtea wrote:

yellowumbrella wrote:Do you think I have a chance at a Hamilton?
Chances of a lower scholly at Columbia?
What score do you think would make the Hamilton possible?
What score do you think would make the Hamilton probable?
3 months until October. Should I retake?
I scored at the low end of my score band, but if I fixed some timing issues, I could potentially raise it as much as 6 points (I have scored higher than that on timed PTs in the past) However, I really don't want to pay $165 and go back into LSAT purgatory.

I'm not an URM expert so I'll let someone else answer your questions.

Her'es what I have to say though: if you're at the lower end of your scoring band, I absolutely think you should retake. I know it's a frightening and dreaded thought, but honestly it will take so much pressure off of you. You're already at a great place, and having a 17X will seriously cement your chances everywhere (you'll probs be Yale bound, but I'm a huge splitter so my knowledge of T6 schools is limited, hahhaa).

I understand the feeling of not wanting to retake, though. I went through the same thing - scored in the lower end of my range. I retook and it was seriously the best decision I could have ever made. If you're worried about timing, I would recommend doing PTs with 5 minutes shaved off each section, until you get used to that. It helped me immensely, I had at least a minute or two left on each section to go over questions or just to collect myself and calm down a little bit.

Thanks so much for your advice crumpets! I really think I'm leaning towards a retake. If I do retake, I will definitely follow your advice and shave off 5 minutes when I practice. Anyone else have an opinion on this?

I would also add that you are already in an excellent position with those stats as an AA female. So you can retake with the comfort of knowing that if you fail, it's no big deal - you'll still have a great cycle. That will take some pressure and anxiety off of you as you study for the test. It's a luxury a lot of re-takers do not have.

francesfarmer wrote: 30 minute PT sections is TCR. That is how I studied.

$165 and three months of your life is so worth the possible $$$ and peace of mind.

Thanks frances. I think you're probably right, although I'm dreading another LSAT.

ChampagnePapi wrote: I would also add that you are already in an excellent position with those stats as an AA female. So you can retake with the comfort of knowing that if you fail, it's no big deal - you'll still have a great cycle. That will take some pressure and anxiety off of you as you study for the test. It's a luxury a lot of re-takers do not have.

Thanks! That does make me feel a lot better, but I just worry that I'll have to choose between my top choice and a scholarship, or worse, that I won't get into my top choice at all.

Guess I'm retaking...

yellowumbrella wrote:

francesfarmer wrote: 30 minute PT sections is TCR. That is how I studied.

$165 and three months of your life is so worth the possible $$$ and peace of mind.

Thanks frances. I think you're probably right, although I'm dreading another LSAT.

ChampagnePapi wrote: I would also add that you are already in an excellent position with those stats as an AA female. So you can retake with the comfort of knowing that if you fail, it's no big deal - you'll still have a great cycle. That will take some pressure and anxiety off of you as you study for the test. It's a luxury a lot of re-takers do not have.

Thanks! That does make me feel a lot better, but I just worry that I'll have to choose between my top choice and a scholarship, or worse, that I won't get into my top choice at all.

Guess I'm retaking...

With URM, you're in everywhere except for YLS... and don't choose money over your top choice

ManOfTheMinute wrote:

yellowumbrella wrote:

francesfarmer wrote: 30 minute PT sections is TCR. That is how I studied.

$165 and three months of your life is so worth the possible $$$ and peace of mind.

Thanks frances. I think you're probably right, although I'm dreading another LSAT.

ChampagnePapi wrote: I would also add that you are already in an excellent position with those stats as an AA female. So you can retake with the comfort of knowing that if you fail, it's no big deal - you'll still have a great cycle. That will take some pressure and anxiety off of you as you study for the test. It's a luxury a lot of re-takers do not have.

Thanks! That does make me feel a lot better, but I just worry that I'll have to choose between my top choice and a scholarship, or worse, that I won't get into my top choice at all.

Guess I'm retaking...

With URM, you're in everywhere except for YLS... and don't choose money over your top choice

This is a horrible blanket statement to make. If you have a Hamilton v Harvard, that is a serious and legitimate debate to have with yourself and depends entirely on how debt averse you are. Telling someone to not choose money over their top choice with stats like this is just silly.

ManOfTheMinute wrote:

yellowumbrella wrote:

francesfarmer wrote: 30 minute PT sections is TCR. That is how I studied.

$165 and three months of your life is so worth the possible $$$ and peace of mind.

Thanks frances. I think you're probably right, although I'm dreading another LSAT.

ChampagnePapi wrote: I would also add that you are already in an excellent position with those stats as an AA female. So you can retake with the comfort of knowing that if you fail, it's no big deal - you'll still have a great cycle. That will take some pressure and anxiety off of you as you study for the test. It's a luxury a lot of re-takers do not have.

Thanks! That does make me feel a lot better, but I just worry that I'll have to choose between my top choice and a scholarship, or worse, that I won't get into my top choice at all.

Guess I'm retaking...

With URM, you're in everywhere except for YLS... and don't choose money over your top choice

What, no. Money should BE your top choice. Do not turn down the Hamilton unless you have a legit reason (spoiler: 90% of reasons are not legit).

Op, you'll already have a fantastic cycle, but if you can retake for a 172+, you'll get everything you want.

yellowumbrella wrote:Do you think I have a chance at a Hamilton?

Yes.

Chances of a lower scholly at Columbia?

Pretty good as it is (probably half).

What score do you think would make the Hamilton possible?

You have a solid chance as it is.

What score do you think would make the Hamilton probable?

173 would pretty much guarantee a Hamilton, since that's pretty close to a YLS lock.

3 months until October. Should I retake?

I scored at the low end of my score band, but if I fixed some timing issues, I could potentially raise it as much as 6 points (I have scored higher than that on timed PTs in the past) However, I really don't want to pay $165 and go back into LSAT purgatory.

Absolutely retake.

Also, for biglaw, T6 full ride > HYS.

crumpetsandtea wrote:

ManOfTheMinute wrote: With URM, you're in everywhere except for YLS... and don't choose money over your top choice

This is a horrible blanket statement to make. If you have a Hamilton v Harvard, that is a serious and legitimate debate to have with yourself and depends entirely on how debt averse you are. Telling someone to not choose money over their top choice with stats like this is just silly.

Thanks for the vote of confidence, Man. But, I have to agree with crumpets, Hamilton v. Harvard is a serious consideration, although I really don't think that'll be an issue at this point.

soj wrote: What, no. Money should BE your top choice. Do not turn down the Hamilton unless you have a legit reason (spoiler: 90% of reasons are not legit).

Op, you'll already have a fantastic cycle, but if you can retake for a 172+, you'll get everything you want.

Soj, I don't know if I agree that money should be the top consideration, but I definitely think someone would have to have a pretty good reason for turning down a Hamilton

twentypercentmore wrote:

yellowumbrella wrote:

What score do you think would make the Hamilton probable?

173 would pretty much guarantee a Hamilton, since that's pretty close to a YLS lock.

3 months until October. Should I retake?

I scored at the low end of my score band, but if I fixed some timing issues, I could potentially raise it as much as 6 points (I have scored higher than that on timed PTs in the past) However, I really don't want to pay $165 and go back into LSAT purgatory.

Absolutely retake.

Also, for biglaw, T6 full ride > HYS.

Thanks! I think I'll definitely retake and go for that 173. Also, I think the T6 full ride v. HYS is somewhat debatable, but bless this post; you are an angel. lol

as someone who did turn down T6 full-ride for HYS, i can tell you that it's going to be a difficult decision and that you aren't going to go wrong either way. but let's not put the cart before the horse; raise that LSAT!

yellowumbrella wrote: Soj, I don't know if I agree that money should be the top consideration, but I definitely think someone would have to have a pretty good reason for turning down a Hamilton

I once thought so, too, but it really should. I've become jaded by the bad teachers, incompetent and overpaid staff, dishonest administrators, and well-meaning but prestige-hungry students (not the majority, but an annoying and vocal minority). Anyone who thinks their law school is immune to these problems is high on the kool-aid. Hopefully I'll still get a job and be fine, but it makes me mad that I am paying or will pay so much of my hard-earned money to my school. It's more out of anger than anything. I'd rather use my money to start a family, help my parents, donate to charity, buy nice things, and save for retirement.

Don't go to a school with significantly worse employment stats for a little bit of money, but when it comes to HYS vs. Hamilton, you're deluding yourself if you think HYS is worth it.

soj wrote:

yellowumbrella wrote: Soj, I don't know if I agree that money should be the top consideration, but I definitely think someone would have to have a pretty good reason for turning down a Hamilton

I once thought so, too, but it really should. I've become jaded by the bad teachers, incompetent and overpaid staff, dishonest administrators, and well-meaning but prestige-hungry students (not the majority, but an annoying and vocal minority). Anyone who thinks their law school is immune to these problems is high on the kool-aid. Hopefully I'll still get a job and be fine, but it makes me mad that I am paying or will pay so much of my hard-earned money to my school.

Don't go to a school with significantly worse employment stats for a little bit of money, but when it comes to HYS vs. Hamilton, you're deluding yourself if you think HYS is worth it.

Dude, if you're worried about this, I'm totally and utterly fucked.

Tag. I like you OP. If it was possible, I would buy you a beer. Columbia absolutely does deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence as YHS.

On lawschoolnumbers, I don't see any URMs reporting Hamiltons this cycle. I see two from last cycle: 172/4.0 and 174/3.7.

If you can raise it by 4 points or so, I think you're in a good position for the Hamilton.

I can't find anyone on LSN with a below median LSAT who got a Hamilton. ETA: Found one URM from the 2007-08 cycle. 169/3.8

vzapana wrote:as someone who did turn down T6 full-ride for HYS, i can tell you that it's going to be a difficult decision and that you aren't going to go wrong either way. but let's not put the cart before the horse; raise that LSAT!

Yea I'm just gonna cross that bridge if and when I come to it. Actually, I'll moonwalk across it with joy.

bizzybone1313 wrote:Tag. I like you OP. If it was possible, I would buy you a beer. Columbia absolutely does deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence as YHS.

Thanks bizzy lol I would give you a digital beer, but I have no idea how to put pictures in here. I think as far as biglaw goes, Columbia is right up there with HYS, but maybe for clerkships and academia, HYS is in a higher tier.

Lavitz wrote:On lawschoolnumbers, I don't see any URMs reporting Hamiltons this cycle. I see two from last cycle: 172/4.0 and 174/3.7.

If you can raise it by 4 points or so, I think you're in a good position for the Hamilton.

I can't find anyone on LSN with a below median LSAT who got a Hamilton. ETA: Found one URM from the 2007-08 cycle. 169/3.8

Lavitz, I think TITCR, unfortunately for me. I was checking out lsn too, but false hope and a lack of data brought me here to ask for TLS wisdom.

Enjoy HYS

Teflon_Don wrote:Enjoy HYS

Don't tease me, bro. Lol

Grats on everything OP! Just wondering how the situation would be different as an AA male. The 3.7/174 who got a Hamilton was an AA female with lots of WE if I remember correctly. I currently have a 3.7, should 174 be my target? I'm aiming for a 180 either way, but just wondering what would secure a full ride at CCN.

howlery wrote:Grats on everything OP! Just wondering how the situation would be different as an AA male. The 3.7/174 who got a Hamilton was an AA female with lots of WE if I remember correctly. I currently have a 3.7, should 174 be my target? I'm aiming for a 180 either way, but just wondering what would secure a full ride at CCN.

I'm not really sure what would secure a full ride for anyone, but I know that the boost for AA male is slightly higher than for AA female, so if, say, a 172 would be high enough for me, a 170 would be high enough for you.

Also, in this post http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... &start=150, on page 7, someone updated the OP's analysis and found that probably around 4 AA males got a 170+ in 2011-12.

bizzybone1313 wrote:Columbia with a Hamilton absolutely does deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence as YHS.

Fixed.

OP, you should be good almost everywhere with your current numbers. It depends on how you present yourself for Y and S, but I think your chances are excellent as long as you don't come across as a total misanthrope or a felon.

I know of 2 people (1 AA male and 1 AA female) who received Hamiltons during the 2011-2012 cycle. I believe the AA male had 3.86/169 and the AA female had 4/172. I know another AA male who received a Butler with a 3.7~/170. As others have said, a 170+ score would give you a very good shot at a Hamilton (and other full rides within the T6), but I don't think it's absolutely necessary. Honestly, unless you're debt averse or just want to do BIGLAW, I might just take my HYS acceptance and run with it if I were you. And, IMO, you don't need a higher score for HYS to come calling.

amc987 wrote:OP, you should be good almost everywhere with your current numbers. It depends on how you present yourself for Y and S, but I think your chances are excellent as long as you don't come across as a total misanthrope or a felon.

I know of 2 people (1 AA male and 1 AA female) who received Hamiltons during the 2011-2012 cycle. I believe the AA male had 3.86/169 and the AA female had 4/172. I know another AA male who received a Butler with a 3.7~/170. As others have said, a 170+ score would give you a very good shot at a Hamilton (and other full rides within the T6), but I don't think it's absolutely necessary. Honestly, unless you're debt averse or just want to do BIGLAW, I might just take my HYS acceptance and run with it if I were you. And, IMO, you don't need a higher score for HYS to come calling.

Thanks! But yeah, I am really debt averse. I really don't understand how someone would not be debt averse, unless their family is loaded. Still, it seems like for AA females, 172 is the "magic" score for a Hamilton.