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Posted: **Mon Jul 01, 2013 11:38 pm**

from an ivy undergrad.

chances for h?

Posted: **Mon Jul 01, 2013 11:40 pm**

Not bad. Right at LSAT median for Harvard per LSN, only .06 under median at GPA.

Posted: **Mon Jul 01, 2013 11:46 pm**

Not a lock but pretty decent odds.

Posted: **Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:26 am**

What kind of soft factors would put me over the edge. Not a urm. Really disappointed with LSAT scores. Consistently scored in the 176 to 180 range on PT. worth a retake? Pretty decent extra currics/internships.

Posted: **Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:35 am**

bludwarf wrote:What kind of soft factors would put me over the edge. Not a urm. Really disappointed with LSAT scores. Consistently scored in the 176 to 180 range on PT. worth a retake? Pretty decent extra currics/internships.

If you're applying this cycle, I don't know what you could possibly do in the next 2 months to give you an edge.

As for retaking, I was just discussing a similar situation with someone in PM. This was my advice:

Because you were PT'ing so well, I do think you should retake since you don't really have anything to lose.

Personally, I would register for the October test, prepare for a retake, but also apply to Harvard on day 1. You shouldn't need to ask them to wait until they receive your new score. The score should be released in late October / early November. This was when Harvard started sending out interview invites. If you get one, great. They'll probably receive your new score before the interview and definitely before the first wave of decisions around Thanksgiving. If they don't invite you in the first wave, don't worry about it. Maybe send them an e-mail confirming that they noticed the new score. Then sit back and wait. I'm sure you'll get an invite even with your current numbers. They just can't include all the top applicants in the first wave.

Also, there was another poster with similar numbers who asked this question at the beginning of the cycle, decided not to retake and got shut out of HYS. I can PM you the thread if you want.

Your softs don't sound too bad, so I think you have a fine chance as it is though. It's up to you.

Posted: **Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:42 am**

Not applying this cycle. Probably next cycle. Will the softened admissions still hold up or will the legal job market buoy up by then, increasing apps?

Posted: **Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:43 am**

No idea.

Posted: **Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:46 am**

Also will a retake really make a huge difference in chances? Won't they average them? Highest average is a 176.

Posted: **Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:51 am**

bludwarf wrote:Also will a retake really make a huge difference in chances? Won't they average them? Highest average is a 176.

They won't average. For all intents and purposes they'll look at the highest score. I don't think it's going to help that much since you're already at the median. But if you're sure you can do better, it would still help to be higher, especially if you're interested in Y or S or if you'd consider a Hamilton at Columbia.

Posted: **Tue Jul 02, 2013 8:47 am**

Here are the mean GPAs and LSATs for Yale students/alumni admitted to T14 schools during the 2011-'12 application cycle. This may be helpful to you, if you want an Ivy-specific reference point.

Yale - 3.83 / 173 (33% acceptance rate)
Harvard - 3.80 / 173 (44% acceptance rate)
Stanford - 3.83 / 174 (29% acceptance rate)
Columbia - 3.74 / 173 (50% acceptance rate)
Chicago - 3.77 / 173 (42% acceptance rate)
NYU - 3.75 / 173 (59% acceptance rate)
Michigan - 3.70 / 170 (47% acceptance rate)
UVA - 3.67 / 171 (27% acceptance rate)
Penn - 3.70 / 170 (32% acceptance rate)
Berkeley - 3.76 / 172 (39% acceptance rate)
Duke - 3.67 / 170 (24% acceptance rate)
Northwestern - 3.67 / 171 (51% acceptance rate)
Cornell - 3.64 / 167 (54% acceptance rate)
Georgetown - 3.67 / 170 (51% acceptance rate)

Posted: **Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:54 am**

vzapana wrote:Here are the mean GPAs and LSATs for Yale students/alumni admitted to T14 schools during the 2011-'12 application cycle. This may be helpful to you, if you want an Ivy-specific reference point.

Yale - 3.83 / 173 (33% acceptance rate)
Harvard - 3.80 / 173 (44% acceptance rate)
Stanford - 3.83 / 174 (29% acceptance rate)
Columbia - 3.74 / 173 (50% acceptance rate)
Chicago - 3.77 / 173 (42% acceptance rate)
NYU - 3.75 / 173 (59% acceptance rate)
Michigan - 3.70 / 170 (47% acceptance rate)
UVA - 3.67 / 171 (27% acceptance rate)
Penn - 3.70 / 170 (32% acceptance rate)
Berkeley - 3.76 / 172 (39% acceptance rate)
Duke - 3.67 / 170 (24% acceptance rate)
Northwestern - 3.67 / 171 (51% acceptance rate)
Cornell - 3.64 / 167 (54% acceptance rate)
Georgetown - 3.67 / 170 (51% acceptance rate)

Are those really mean scores? If so, it's probably not very indicative of much (the distribution of scores isn't normal given the URM scores are typically so much lower than the rest).

Posted: **Tue Jul 02, 2013 11:45 am**

Ruluo wrote:
vzapana wrote:Here are the mean GPAs and LSATs for Yale students/alumni admitted to T14 schools during the 2011-'12 application cycle. This may be helpful to you, if you want an Ivy-specific reference point.

Yale - 3.83 / 173 (33% acceptance rate)
Harvard - 3.80 / 173 (44% acceptance rate)
Stanford - 3.83 / 174 (29% acceptance rate)
Columbia - 3.74 / 173 (50% acceptance rate)
Chicago - 3.77 / 173 (42% acceptance rate)
NYU - 3.75 / 173 (59% acceptance rate)
Michigan - 3.70 / 170 (47% acceptance rate)
UVA - 3.67 / 171 (27% acceptance rate)
Penn - 3.70 / 170 (32% acceptance rate)
Berkeley - 3.76 / 172 (39% acceptance rate)
Duke - 3.67 / 170 (24% acceptance rate)
Northwestern - 3.67 / 171 (51% acceptance rate)
Cornell - 3.64 / 167 (54% acceptance rate)
Georgetown - 3.67 / 170 (51% acceptance rate)
Are those really mean scores? If so, it's probably not very indicative of much (the distribution of scores isn't normal given the URM scores are typically so much lower than the rest).

Are URM scores counted?

Posted: **Tue Jul 02, 2013 11:45 am**

Posted: **Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:01 pm**

meadow201 wrote:
Lavitz wrote:Not a lock but pretty decent odds.

why do you do 173-174? I understand that enlarges & broadens the sample size but being @ the median vs one above is night and day, no?

I don't think so. Being @ median and being one below would be night and day. One keeps the median and the other risks lowering it. One point above the median also helps keep the median, and would be great if a school was trying to increase its median, but with the decline in apps, I don't see Harvard shooting for a 174. I don't think it's ever been that high. Yes, a 174 would be slightly better though.

Posted: **Tue Jul 02, 2013 1:59 pm**

Bottom line- should I retake if I believe I can get 177+

Posted: **Tue Jul 02, 2013 2:02 pm**

bludwarf wrote:Bottom line- should I retake if I believe I can get 177+

Apply early on in H's cycle, and if you have good LORs/PS, you'll be set. If not, re-take and man-up.

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