Top Law Schools

So,

I graduated from a mickey mouse state school undergrad several years ago with a 3.55 LSDAS GPA. At the time I was debating between econ grad school and law school, and I took a considerable amount of lsat practice tests and was consistently scoring above 175. I ultimately decided econ, took the gre and did well (perfect score except for writing).

Long story short, ended up with an econ masters, good grades, a few research fellowships and scholarships to my name, and a job in a well respected think tank.

I also have fairly strong softs, self taught some languages, lots of volunteer work etc.

I am thinking that a T14 law school may be a good investment (earnings are relatively low even in good think tanks), and I'm considering pursuing that option. I would like to know if I invested a considerable amount of time and effort in the LSAT to score in the mid to high 170s would it be possible to have a high probability (90%+) shot of getting into a non-HYS T14 school?

tl;dr not-urm 3.55 ~175 anticipated high lsat (based on practice) can i break the T14? should i do early decision to guarantee admission? debt not to important to me.

A 175 would give you a very strong shot at most of the non-YHS T14.

Visit lawschoolnumbers.com and myLSN.info.

I say no ED--not enough split.

Likely in and/or waitlist at most of T14, except HYS and Berkeley.

If you got a 175, there is better than a 90% chance you'd get into a non-HYS law school.

Do not ED anywhere. You will get into multiple T14s, some will offer you money.

Thanks for the help.

I also failed two classes as an undergrad (these are factored into my GPA, but I have lots of A's too). Same professor, we didn't vibe. I don't suppose that matters though as, from what I've read, the whole GPA is all that's important.

I realize this is slightly off topic (and there are probably ample available links in this forum), but my next related questions would be:

1) Is there a relative breakdown of the strengths and weaknesses of the T4-14? I'm not sure enough of my future preferences, but I'd like to earn more than I'm earning now (~60k), and have a more intellectually satisfying job (I realize these may be, to a certain extent, mutually exclusive).

2) What sort of decision making process should someone in my shoes follow when deciding whether or not to apply to law schools?
My reasons for:
Earn more money
More intellectual stimulation (in my industry there is only so far you can go w/o phd)
More mid-career/late-career respect and potential (see above)
Good at standardized testing (perfect scores on sat/gre, and good practice lsats; only consistently miss questions in logic games)
I think I would enjoy the law school experience, and I have never gone to a 'top' school

My reasons against:
A huge money and time investment
Not enough information/uncertainty about outcomes
I may hate biglaw, again not enough information
Huge opportunity costs if I prepare/apply and do not get in.

perhaps ED at NW you may have the numbers for a full ride...
re: your other questions about comparing the T14 and employment prospects, there is a ton of information on that here so i would spend some time doing research. to earn more than 60k out of law school you will probably need to get biglaw.
good luck!

visceralista wrote:Thanks for the help.

I also failed two classes as an undergrad (these are factored into my GPA, but I have lots of A's too). Same professor, we didn't vibe. I don't suppose that matters though as, from what I've read, the whole GPA is all that's important.

I realize this is slightly off topic (and there are probably ample available links in this forum), but my next related questions would be:

1) Is there a relative breakdown of the strengths and weaknesses of the T4-14? I'm not sure enough of my future preferences, but I'd like to earn more than I'm earning now (~60k), and have a more intellectually satisfying job (I realize these may be, to a certain extent, mutually exclusive).

2) What sort of decision making process should someone in my shoes follow when deciding whether or not to apply to law schools?
My reasons for:
Earn more money
More intellectual stimulation (in my industry there is only so far you can go w/o phd)
More mid-career/late-career respect and potential (see above)
Good at standardized testing (perfect scores on sat/gre, and good practice lsats; only consistently miss questions in logic games)
I think I would enjoy the law school experience, and I have never gone to a 'top' school

My reasons against:
A huge money and time investment
Not enough information/uncertainty about outcomes
I may hate biglaw, again not enough information
Huge opportunity costs if I prepare/apply and do not get in.

T4-T14 are mostly fungible, with perhaps better biglaw chances towards the top (though that's debated on TLS). You don't need to ED since you're a lock to snag a couple of them.

There are some good threads in the Legal Employment forum about life as a lawyer, particularly in a big firm. Do a search.

But you are getting ahead of yourself. You may be PTing at 175+ but its very difficult to score in that range. Lock down that score first and then worry about the rest of this later.

Thanks for all the help.

This is my plan then,

Research law schools until august, and if I still want to go begin heavy preparation for the February 2014 lsat. Retake if I score substantially below my practice test average, and blanket T14 with apps for the 2015/16 academic year. Pray for acceptance, and a nice scholarship.

Is there anything I can do beyond studying the lsats to substantially (or even marginally) increase my chance at admissions?

Thanks again

visceralista wrote:Thanks for all the help.

This is my plan then,

Research law schools until august, and if I still want to go begin heavy preparation for the February 2014 lsat. Retake if I score substantially below my practice test average, and blanket T14 with apps for the 2015/16 academic year. Pray for acceptance, and a nice scholarship.

Is there anything I can do beyond studying the lsats to substantially (or even marginally) increase my chance at admissions?

Thanks again

If you think you can improve, retaking is not a bad option. 177 gives you a strong shot at H and an outside shot at YS.

I think your numbers will get you a full ride at some of the T13, but your best play would probably be ED NU if you don't retake and think you would take a full ride at NU over any other non HYSCCN, and if you do retake and hit 177+ I think you could be looking at H or significant discount at CCN.

Your numbers are good and there isn't really a bad play here for you--just varying degrees of good and better. For me, I'm super debt averse and with your numbers, I'd probably take a full ride at Cornell over modest at CCN.

cahwc12 wrote:If you think you can improve, retaking is not a bad option. 177 gives you a strong shot at H and an outside shot at YS.

I think your numbers will get you a full ride at some of the T13, but your best play would probably be ED NU if you don't retake and think you would take a full ride at NU over any other non HYSCCN, and if you do retake and hit 177+ I think you could be looking at H or significant discount at CCN.

Your numbers are good and there isn't really a bad play here for you--just varying degrees of good and better. For me, I'm super debt averse and with your numbers, I'd probably take a full ride at Cornell over modest at CCN.

This is definitely overstating his chances for H: http://myLSN.info/ei4sfb. Also, sub-3.8 GPAs are almost always deadly for YS. Some of the acceptances at S are likely URM applicants who didn't specify race/ethnicity on LSN.

OP is also exceedingly unlikely to get a full ride anywhere in the T14 with a GPA that's below median everywhere and below the 25th at most schools. Just check LSN. An ED to NU is worth doing anyway, but he/she almost certainly won't get it. NU gives out $90K or $120K to people around OP's numbers, but receiving one of these scholarships is still far from guaranteed.

Ti Malice wrote:

cahwc12 wrote:If you think you can improve, retaking is not a bad option. 177 gives you a strong shot at H and an outside shot at YS.

I think your numbers will get you a full ride at some of the T13, but your best play would probably be ED NU if you don't retake and think you would take a full ride at NU over any other non HYSCCN, and if you do retake and hit 177+ I think you could be looking at H or significant discount at CCN.

Your numbers are good and there isn't really a bad play here for you--just varying degrees of good and better. For me, I'm super debt averse and with your numbers, I'd probably take a full ride at Cornell over modest at CCN.

This is definitely overstating his chances for H: http://myLSN.info/ei4sfb. Also, sub-3.8 GPAs are almost always deadly for YS. Some of the acceptances at S are likely URM applicants who didn't specify race/ethnicity on LSN.

OP is also exceedingly unlikely to get a full ride anywhere in the T14 with a GPA that's below median everywhere and below the 25th at most schools. Just check LSN. An ED to NU is worth doing anyway, but he/she almost certainly won't get it. NU gives out $90K or $120K to people around OP's numbers, but receiving one of these scholarships is still far from guaranteed.

I didn't even realize OP hadn't taken LSAT yet. I do know that at least one person got a full ride with a 3.4/175 at Cornell last cycle, but I honestly haven't checked much on this cycle's scholarship info since I decided to wait (again). I also think that perhaps my sense of H admittance chances is also a little overzealous, although I do think "strong shot" would apply to 3:1 odds. Two friends who were admitted to H in previous cycles had 3.4/177 and 3.3/177 (neither ended up attending though). mylsn.info is a great resource, and I think we tend to lean a little too heavily on it for the tip-top LSATs and things. I do think a larger proportion of high scorers end up reporting on lsn, but due to the much lower overall number of high scorers, I feel like the data tends to be a little less certain.

Now that I think of that though, shouldn't there be a way to document the number of self-reported scores by frequency on LSN and just compare that with the actual numbers? I'll bet that would be pretty insightful.

,

What is a "mickey mouse state school" exactly? Never heard the term before.

Ti Malice wrote:

cahwc12 wrote:If you think you can improve, retaking is not a bad option. 177 gives you a strong shot at H and an outside shot at YS.

I think your numbers will get you a full ride at some of the T13, but your best play would probably be ED NU if you don't retake and think you would take a full ride at NU over any other non HYSCCN, and if you do retake and hit 177+ I think you could be looking at H or significant discount at CCN.

Your numbers are good and there isn't really a bad play here for you--just varying degrees of good and better. For me, I'm super debt averse and with your numbers, I'd probably take a full ride at Cornell over modest at CCN.

This is definitely overstating his chances for H: http://myLSN.info/ei4sfb. Also, sub-3.8 GPAs are almost always deadly for YS. Some of the acceptances at S are likely URM applicants who didn't specify race/ethnicity on LSN.

OP is also exceedingly unlikely to get a full ride anywhere in the T14 with a GPA that's below median everywhere and below the 25th at most schools. Just check LSN. An ED to NU is worth doing anyway, but he/she almost certainly won't get it. NU gives out $90K or $120K to people around OP's numbers, but receiving one of these scholarships is still far from guaranteed.

I'm not so sure about that last part. Some people got NU ED with real mediocre numbers. Its hard to look it up on LSN nowadays. IMO people overestimate the #'s required to get the fully.