AA Male URM 3.3 148 Forum

[GWU13]

I'm a male AA URM looking for some advice.

I just got done taking the LSAT this weekend for the third time and am hoping for a better result than my previous two times. My scores are 143 and 148 with a LSAC GPA of 3.3. I wrote an LSAT addendum explaining my history of underperformance on standardized tests and attached my SAT and ACT scores. My resume, letters of rec, personal statement, and softs (first in my family to attend college) I think will help my chances of admission, however, I wanted to get your guys opinion at my chances into a top 50 school. I have applied part-time to Fordham, Cardozo, America, Chicago-Kent, Georgetown, Loyola University of Chicago, GW (my current school), and Rutgers, while applying to a handful of other schools who do not offer part-time programs. Can you guys give me any insight into my chances of possibly gaining admission to any of these universities and other top 50 programs?

Thank you.

[Dmini7]

I'm a male AA URM looking for some advice.

I just got done taking the LSAT this weekend for the third time and am hoping for a better result than my previous two times. My scores are 143 and 148 with a LSAC GPA of 3.3. I wrote an LSAT addendum explaining my history of underperformance on standardized tests and attached my SAT and ACT scores. My resume, letters of rec, personal statement, and softs (first in my family to attend college) I think will help my chances of admission, however, I wanted to get your guys opinion at my chances into a top 50 school. I have applied part-time to Fordham, Cardozo, America, Chicago-Kent, Georgetown, Loyola University of Chicago, GW (my current school), and Rutgers, while applying to a handful of other schools who do not offer part-time programs. Can you guys give me any insight into my chances of possibly gaining admission to any of these universities and other top 50 programs?

Thank you.

Are you an African American?

Your cycle will be unpredictable. I suggest looking at JayJones78's profile and his LSN. He is in pretty much the same boat as you. I am unsure an addendum with your SAT and ACT scores will help if both are also low. They will just interprete it as your actual ability. Also, unless your major was a hard science, your GPA will not help them believe your addendum is valid. With all of that said, You will have a shot at cracking the T50 if you score above a 150 thanks to your UMR status(if you are an African American). Problem is, you will be paying sticker at nearly any school you get into, and many would argue it is not a wise choice. How do you feel you did on the third LSAT compared to the other two? Did you study?

Edit: After looking at the numbers.. your chances do not look good. The sample size is way to small to take anything valuable from it, but here you go.

http://myLSN.info/bb3g9a

[GWU13]

I am African American. I think I did better, but I felt the same way after taking it my second time and really didn't do as well as I had been doing on my practice ones. I guess i'll just have to see how this cycle goes. Thanks for the input.

[Dmini7]

I am African American. I think I did better, but I felt the same way after taking it my second time and really didn't do as well as I had been doing on my practice ones. I guess i'll just have to see how this cycle goes. Thanks for the input.

What were you practicing at? To have any real shot at the T1 you need to crack 150(ideally 155). Again, this is if going is what you truly desire. Most people here will say retake and going to a T1 is a big mistake especially at sticker. Ultimately, it is up for you to decide if it is worth it though. Also, you are applying very late, so that will not help your situation either.

[GWU13]

You think even applying part-time to schools won't make much of a difference?

[GWU13]

I was practicing consistently at high 150s and low 160s.

[Rahviveh]

What exactly did you write in your addendum? If you got a 3.3 in undergrad how did you "under perform" on the entrance exams?

[Dmini7]

You think even applying part-time to schools won't make much of a difference?

I am not well versed on part-time programs. I know their standards are lower, but I don't know if they care too much about diversity in them. I assume you would still get the AA boost though. If that is the case, then you would have a better shot (if you score close to their median). Hopefully you scored within your range, if so this whole speculation becomes pointless and you will probably get money from some of the lower tier 1's.

[GWU13]

I transferred to my current university because I would not have been able to get in right out of high school.

In the interest of providing you with the most accurate, overall impression of my academic record, I believe it is necessary to explain the discrepancy between my LSAT scores, my GPA and other scholastic activities. I am an above-average, well-rounded student, but unfortunately, I do not do as well as I’d like on standardized tests. While I am a strong and committed student, my LSAT and earlier standardized test scores do not accurately reflect my abilities, accomplishments and most importantly, my consistent ability to achieve my goals, all of which are indicative of my drive to succeed in my chosen field.

I took the LSAT exam in both October and December 2012 and was greatly disappointed by my scores (although the December 2012 overall score is somewhat better than the October 2012 score). Although these are not an official element of this application, I am attaching copies of my ACT and SAT scores to illustrate my point.

[Rahviveh]

I transferred to my current university because I would not have been able to get in right out of high school.

In the interest of providing you with the most accurate, overall impression of my academic record, I believe it is necessary to explain the discrepancy between my LSAT scores, my GPA and other scholastic activities. I am an above-average, well-rounded student, but unfortunately, I do not do as well as I’d like on standardized tests. While I am a strong and committed student, my LSAT and earlier standardized test scores do not accurately reflect my abilities, accomplishments and most importantly, my consistent ability to achieve my goals, all of which are indicative of my drive to succeed in my chosen field.

I took the LSAT exam in both October and December 2012 and was greatly disappointed by my scores (although the December 2012 overall score is somewhat better than the October 2012 score). Although these are not an official element of this application, I am attaching copies of my ACT and SAT scores to illustrate my point.

But you have a 3.3. I'm not trying to put you down but this addendum is not convincing at all. Please do not send them your SAT scores.

[GWU13]

I can take constructive criticism. I don't understand how to make something that is so black and white "convincing" and persuasive for these adcoms. What I wrote in my addendum is the truth and my SAT scores are evidence of that. Even though I am not a hard science major, my GPA is still respectable given that my SAT scores were nowhere near what they needed to be in order to go to the university that I go to now and am successful.

[Rahviveh]

I can take constructive criticism. I don't understand how to make something that is so black and white "convincing" and persuasive for these adcoms. What I wrote in my addendum is the truth and my SAT scores are evidence of that. Even though I am not a hard science major, my GPA is still respectable given that my SAT scores were nowhere near what they needed to be in order to go to the university that I go to now and am successful.

Ok. Did you study for the SAT/ACT?

How much and how did you study for the LSAT?

[GWU13]

I studied for both the SAT and ACT and probably studied 3/4 times a week at 3hrs a day for the LSAT.

[A. Nony Mouse]

I think the problem is that 97% of people who do poorly on the LSAT believe it's because they do poorly on standardized tests compared to other kinds of assessments and it doesn't truly reflect their abilities. (The other 3% probably have legitimate emergencies, e.g. spontaneous stomach flu in the middle of the test, that kind of thing.) Saying so doesn't really mean much to adcomms for whom ability to perform well on a particular standardized test is one of the central criteria they use for deciding whom to admit. Unless you have something very specific to explain why you don't do well on standardized tests - besides that you don't do well on standardized tests - I don't think the statement adds anything to the application.

(Besides, if you were testing in the high 150s-low 160s, the issue isn't not doing well on standardized tests - it's not doing well under test conditions, which isn't really the same thing.)

[Dmini7]

I studied for both the SAT and ACT and probably studied 3/4 times a week at 3hrs a day for the LSAT.

I understand what you are trying to do with the addendum GWU13. The only issue is showing them previous tests with low scores may not work in your favor. If anything they will assume that is your real testing ability, and depending on your major they may consider your grades evidence of inflation. It may be better to just not include the SAT/ACT all together. Another question: What was your GPA before transfering in? Did it drop a lot after the transfer or did it remain consistent? They may take a look at that if they want to see your ability when compared with a more competitive environment.

Honestly, you should apply for schools from 40-100 with your score if you are set on going. Find a school in your region that suits that. I would avoid American though (assuming you are from DC).

[GWU13]

Dmini7: That's basically what i'm doing. I appreciate the advice. What's wrong with American? I've been reading that people are saying to stay away from American, etc. etc.

[Dmini7]

Dmini7: That's basically what i'm doing. I appreciate the advice. What's wrong with American? I've been reading that people are saying to stay away from American, etc. etc.

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=american

their employment score, the tuition price, the cost of living in D.C. and their lack of offering substantial scholarships. It is in a very tough market to break into. One that every school actually will try to go to(Since anyone who passes a state bar and practice in D.C.) and recruits mostly from T14 schools. Ultimately, it is your choice, and for some people American is their best option in their opinion. But I would look closely at any data they provide and determine if your chances of success from the school are enough to make the jump.

[nebula666]

Pick a region in which you want to work that isn't CA, Chicago, DC, New York, or Boston and go to the best school in that area.

Have you considered an alternative to law school?

[romothesavior]

I was practicing consistently at high 150s and low 160s.

Retake. Don't squander the decent GPA and URM boost. You could get into some really good schools if you can crack 160.

[GWU13]

Nebula: I haven't considered an alternative to law school seeing that its what i've wanted to do since getting into school. How much do law schools put on legacy (I have 3 family members who all attended a particular law school in the top 50)? Also, is it really too late to be applying, all my applications have already been submitted, however, they are on hold because of the February LSAT?

[lutcf2021]

You're a lock for a spot at cooley law school. They would deff take your numbers.

[superpippo]

You're a lock for a spot at Cooley Law School. They would deff take your numbers.

[hope&change]

Nebula: I haven't considered an alternative to law school seeing that its what i've wanted to do since getting into school. How much do law schools put on legacy (I have 3 family members who all attended a particular law school in the top 50)? Also, is it really too late to be applying, all my applications have already been submitted, however, they are on hold because of the February LSAT?

I'm confused--I thought you were the first in your family to attend college? In any event, you should either retake the LSAT or reconsider law school. If you decide to go, please don't pay full price.

[uvabro]

Don't listen. OP you need to follow your dream, and go this year wherever you need to. You'll get whatever job what you want because it's always about how badly you want it. Professors grade not based off of how well you can think critically or use LSAT skills, but on a strict how bad do you want it curve. When you're representing clients, if you've ever been in a courtroom you know the judges normally just ask the lawyers how badly they want it, have them sing their heart out and then pick whichever side wants it more.

[txdude45]

Nebula: I haven't considered an alternative to law school seeing that its what i've wanted to do since getting into school. How much do law schools put on legacy (I have 3 family members who all attended a particular law school in the top 50)? Also, is it really too late to be applying, all my applications have already been submitted, however, they are on hold because of the February LSAT?

I'm confused--I thought you were the first in your family to attend college?

Maybe he meant immediate family, in which case being the first would still mean something I guess. I think the answer is clearly retake though. An AA male shouldn't wasn't a relatively good GPA like that. I know I'd gladly trade it with you. Find someone to let you work in their office, take your time studying, hit 160+, profit(maybe).