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Hey all,

I've noticed TLS tends to always fall back on the "retake!" advice -- my (crazy overachiever..) friend was telling me to retake my 175 since Harvard and Yale's 75th is 176/177, and therefore presumably one should never feel quite satisfied unless they've got at least a 177. Most people I talk to irl seem to think retaking anything above a 165 is pure insanity, and I figured anything below a 172 was retake-worthy, but I thought I'd ask TLS what they thought about a 175.

The 175 came on my second LSAT, so my 'avg' LSAT is 170 but I'm under the impression that averaged scores aren't particularly important. If I retook, however, presumably my avg would be bumped accordingly.

Cum. GPA is a 3.88 at the moment but I think it will be a 3.89 or 3.9 once my fall grades come in. I'll be applying initially with the 3.88 regardless.

bbsg wrote:Hey all,

I've noticed TLS tends to always fall back on the "retake!" advice -- my (crazy overachiever..) friend was telling me to retake my 175 since Harvard and Yale's 75th is 176/177, and therefore presumably one should never feel quite satisfied unless they've got at least a 177. Most people I talk to irl seem to think retaking anything above a 165 is pure insanity, and I figured anything below a 172 was retake-worthy, but I thought I'd ask TLS what they thought about a 175.

The 175 came on my second LSAT, so my 'avg' LSAT is 170 but I'm under the impression that averaged scores aren't particularly important. If I retook, however, presumably my avg would be bumped accordingly.

Cum. GPA is a 3.88 at the moment but I think it will be a 3.89 or 3.9 once my fall grades come in. I'll be applying initially with the 3.88 regardless.

Your friend is the dumbest smart person you know

polkij333 wrote:

bbsg wrote:Hey all,

I've noticed TLS tends to always fall back on the "retake!" advice -- my (crazy overachiever..) friend was telling me to retake my 175 since Harvard and Yale's 75th is 176/177, and therefore presumably one should never feel quite satisfied unless they've got at least a 177. Most people I talk to irl seem to think retaking anything above a 165 is pure insanity, and I figured anything below a 172 was retake-worthy, but I thought I'd ask TLS what they thought about a 175.

The 175 came on my second LSAT, so my 'avg' LSAT is 170 but I'm under the impression that averaged scores aren't particularly important. If I retook, however, presumably my avg would be bumped accordingly.

Cum. GPA is a 3.88 at the moment but I think it will be a 3.89 or 3.9 once my fall grades come in. I'll be applying initially with the 3.88 regardless.

Your friend is the dumbest smart person you know

Ahahah. That was my knee jerk opinion too, but I figured checking out TLS's opinion would be interesting since "retake" is the default response from everyone. If TLS tells me there's no need to retake, then I'm *sure* there isn't.

No

bbsg wrote:Hey all,

I've noticed TLS tends to always fall back on the "retake!" advice -- my (crazy overachiever..) friend was telling me to retake my 175 since Harvard and Yale's 75th is 176/177, and therefore presumably one should never feel quite satisfied unless they've got at least a 177. Most people I talk to irl seem to think retaking anything above a 165 is pure insanity, and I figured anything below a 172 was retake-worthy, but I thought I'd ask TLS what they thought about a 175.

The 175 came on my second LSAT, so my 'avg' LSAT is 170 but I'm under the impression that averaged scores aren't particularly important. If I retook, however, presumably my avg would be bumped accordingly.

Cum. GPA is a 3.88 at the moment but I think it will be a 3.89 or 3.9 once my fall grades come in. I'll be applying initially with the 3.88 regardless.

Depends on what you're PTing at, if you think you have a very good shot at 177+, and if you feel like you underperformed on test day (and you're sure it won't happen again).

The benefit of retaking for a 177+ does not compare to the risk of getting a <175.

If you're consistently getting 179/180 on PTs and was sick on test day (or had some other extraordinary circumstance that you know affected your score), then retake. Otherwise, the variance in your scores is probably too high to reliably retake for a 177. That's why they have brackets for your score.

In addition, many people see a drop in scores during test day.

Disclaimer: I do consider myself a slight overachiever too. I considered retaking my 174 but decided against it (because my GPA locks me out of HYS anyway).

Honestly in your situation retaking a 175 isn't the worst decision. But unless you're pretty sure that you can score a 175+, then I wouldn't retake.

senorhosh wrote:

bbsg wrote:Hey all,

I've noticed TLS tends to always fall back on the "retake!" advice -- my (crazy overachiever..) friend was telling me to retake my 175 since Harvard and Yale's 75th is 176/177, and therefore presumably one should never feel quite satisfied unless they've got at least a 177. Most people I talk to irl seem to think retaking anything above a 165 is pure insanity, and I figured anything below a 172 was retake-worthy, but I thought I'd ask TLS what they thought about a 175.

The 175 came on my second LSAT, so my 'avg' LSAT is 170 but I'm under the impression that averaged scores aren't particularly important. If I retook, however, presumably my avg would be bumped accordingly.

Cum. GPA is a 3.88 at the moment but I think it will be a 3.89 or 3.9 once my fall grades come in. I'll be applying initially with the 3.88 regardless.

Depends on what you're PTing at, if you think you have a very good shot at 177+, and if you feel like you underperformed on test day (and you're sure it won't happen again).

The benefit of retaking for a 177+ does not compare to the risk of getting a <175.

If you're consistently getting 179/180 on PTs and was sick on test day (or had some other extraordinary circumstance that you know affected your score), then retake. Otherwise, the variance in your scores is probably too high to reliably retake for a 177. That's why they have brackets for your score.

In addition, many people see a drop in scores during test day.

Disclaimer: I do consider myself a slight overachiever too. I considered retaking my 174 but decided against it (because my GPA locks me out of HYS anyway).

Honestly in your situation retaking a 175 isn't the worst decision. But unless you're pretty sure that you can score a 175+, then I wouldn't retake.

I know it calls into question my intellect and sanity, but I agree with this post. I would have retaken anything under a 177. But I also felt like my PT performance leading up to the test justified that stance. If you were not or are not consistently hitting 179/180 on PTs, you should probably stand pat.

You can always sign up for the test, prep like mad, and then cancel before test day if you aren't performing at that level.

.

wert3813 wrote:

Ti Malice wrote:

senorhosh wrote:

bbsg wrote:Hey all,

I've noticed TLS tends to always fall back on the "retake!" advice -- my (crazy overachiever..) friend was telling me to retake my 175 since Harvard and Yale's 75th is 176/177, and therefore presumably one should never feel quite satisfied unless they've got at least a 177. Most people I talk to irl seem to think retaking anything above a 165 is pure insanity, and I figured anything below a 172 was retake-worthy, but I thought I'd ask TLS what they thought about a 175.

The 175 came on my second LSAT, so my 'avg' LSAT is 170 but I'm under the impression that averaged scores aren't particularly important. If I retook, however, presumably my avg would be bumped accordingly.

Cum. GPA is a 3.88 at the moment but I think it will be a 3.89 or 3.9 once my fall grades come in. I'll be applying initially with the 3.88 regardless.

Depends on what you're PTing at, if you think you have a very good shot at 177+, and if you feel like you underperformed on test day (and you're sure it won't happen again).

The benefit of retaking for a 177+ does not compare to the risk of getting a <175.

If you're consistently getting 179/180 on PTs and was sick on test day (or had some other extraordinary circumstance that you know affected your score), then retake. Otherwise, the variance in your scores is probably too high to reliably retake for a 177. That's why they have brackets for your score.

In addition, many people see a drop in scores during test day.

Disclaimer: I do consider myself a slight overachiever too. I considered retaking my 174 but decided against it (because my GPA locks me out of HYS anyway).

Honestly in your situation retaking a 175 isn't the worst decision. But unless you're pretty sure that you can score a 175+, then I wouldn't retake.

I know it calls into question my intellect and sanity, but I agree with this post. I would have retaken anything under a 177. But I also felt like my PT performance leading up to the test justified that stance. If you were not or are not consistently hitting 179/180 on PTs, you should probably stand pat.

You can always sign up for the test, prep like mad, and then cancel before test day if you aren't performing at that level.

OP what's your GPA???

3.88, probably a 3.9 after fall term grades come in.

Where do you most want to go for law school?

.

If I were to rank: Yale -> Harvard -> Columbia -> NYU -> University of Toronto -- finances are a concern, so the degree to which a few point bump would affect scholarship potential is of note too.

I was PTing consistently between 174-177, so I'm not sure if I can claim the "consistent 179-180" PT bit. I PT'ed a 179/180 probably about a fifth of the time, but I'm only taking one class this semester so maybe the whole "register and see where you are in a month" advice makes sense. Then again, perhaps schools seeing an LSAT pending will hold off on decisions, thus negatively impacting scholarship potential? Or, alternatively, they'll see a 175 retake-pending to mean I'm weird? Hah.

I'm applying this cycle but I'm not *set* on this cycle, if that makes sense. I know it's a bit late in the cycle, and if I didn't get Yale/Harvard/Columbia/NYU I'd probably sooner sit out a cycle and see what an earlier application yields rather than go elsewhere this year.

I think my softs are alright but obviously not a clincher for Yale.

(I'll be sure to come back and post whatever I did and the result for future lurkers, of course!)

.

This is actually proving to be very helpful and insightful. Thanks guys!

As for material, I've thus far gone through about 15 PTs.

bbsg wrote:As for material, I've thus far gone through about 15 PTs.

Holy shit.

bbsg wrote: Cum. GPA is a 3.88 at the moment

bbsg wrote:If I were to rank: Yale -> Harvard -> Columbia -> NYU -> University of Toronto -- finances are a concern, so the degree to which a few point bump would affect scholarship potential is of note too.

I was PTing consistently between 174-177, so I'm not sure if I can claim the "consistent 179-180" PT bit. I PT'ed a 179/180 probably about a fifth of the time, but I'm only taking one class this semester so maybe the whole "register and see where you are in a month" advice makes sense. Then again, perhaps schools seeing an LSAT pending will hold off on decisions, thus negatively impacting scholarship potential? Or, alternatively, they'll see a 175 retake-pending to mean I'm weird? Hah.

I'm applying this cycle but I'm not *set* on this cycle, if that makes sense. I know it's a bit late in the cycle, and if I didn't get Yale/Harvard/Columbia/NYU I'd probably sooner sit out a cycle and see what an earlier application yields rather than go elsewhere this year.

I think my softs are alright but obviously not a clincher for Yale.

(I'll be sure to come back and post whatever I did and the result for future lurkers, of course!)

Just a heads up, Harvard and Yale don't give merit aid, so there's that. You would probably be in the running for the Hamiliton at CLS, and I'm sure you would clean up nice at NYU. I don't know anything about Canadian law schools. My advice, if you want Yale super bad, I guess retake. Otherwise, no. Also, I really hate you.

This is the first time I've seen a TLS thread that primarily says, "Don't retake." Big day. Congrats.

New Harvard 75% is 175 (You have a >90% chance to get in with a 175/3.9)

Only reason to retake would be for Yale so you can hit their 75%s.

Their 75%s may drop to 175 too, who knows. But that isn't going to be why you get or don't get into Yale. You have the numbers for them to accept you already, it will still come down to your softs.




If I were you personally, I'd retake and ED UVA though


Goodluck.

sinfiery wrote:But that isn't going to be why you get or don't get into Yale.

Yeah, this. At this point, your time may be better spent honing your PS and softs or playing video games.

sinfiery wrote:But that isn't going to be why you get or don't get into Yale. You have the numbers for them to accept you already, it will still come down to your softs.

This is not accurate. A higher LSAT score would make a significant difference for him at Yale.

OP, I'll return with more advice when I have time. Silly YLS is in exams period now, so I need to get the hell off of this site.

Ti Malice wrote:

sinfiery wrote:But that isn't going to be why you get or don't get into Yale. You have the numbers for them to accept you already, it will still come down to your softs.

This is not accurate. A higher LSAT score would make a significant difference for him at Yale.

OP, I'll return with more advice when I have time. Silly YLS is in exams period now, so I need to get the hell off of this site.

LOL YLS exams



tso jelly.

Ti Malice wrote: This is not accurate. A higher LSAT score would make a significant difference for him at Yale.

OP, I'll return with more advice when I have time. Silly YLS is in exams period now, so I need to get the hell off of this site.

I see, fair enough. I am indeed very ignorant on that schools application process.

I retook my 174 in Dec and got a 179, but I was PTing at 179-180 on almost every PT up to test day (and my GPA gives me a shot at HLS with the 179 but not the 174). OP, go for the 'study super hard up until test day' approach if you really want YLS. Otherwise, assuming not terrible softs you should get HLS.

For the number of hours you would take studying with the potential of not improving on test day (getting sick, burning out etc..) couldn't time be better spent investing into soft factors?

Before I get burned, I mean tweaking your PS/ Yale 250, publishing other articles through your school, volunteering/ working at a different job?

Like others said your GPA and LSAT already make you competitive for your schools, instead of worrying about increasing your LSAT by a point or two why not work on making the rest of your application stand out?

Random necro, but thanks for feedback, all!

I think my softs are about as strong as I could reasonably make them in my circumstances (I mean not an Olympian, but you know) and my GPA is locked in so the LSAT is really all I had to tinker with.

For the record, future readers, I decided not to rewrite. I wasn't sure 2 more points on a third retake would necessarily carry the amount of "oomph" necessary or constitute a particularly rational use of my time. Presumably future lurkers can check out my LSN to see how that panned out and whether I should have rewritten for YLS or not. (Also made a typo on HLS statement, so I'm not taking my chances there for granted at this point either).

Best of luck, future lurkers!