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I was wondering what my chances at H were with a GPA in the mid 3s (let's say 3.5) from a stem subject and a LSAT that is above their 75th percentile. Assume average recommendations and softs with brief (1 to 2 years) substantive work experience. Will the falling numbers of law school applicants, particularly those with higher LSATs, improve my chances much compared to previous years? Also, is there a large difference between applying late this cycle (so sometime this month) as opposed to early in the next one?

extremely unlikely but worth shooting an app anyways

ChampagnePapi wrote:extremely unlikely but worth shooting an app anyways

I know a guy who claimed to get into Harvard with a 3.4 from Georgia Tech EE and a 178. I believe him because 3.4 at GT is really good, their curve is brutal.

If your school is similar you might have a shot. But if you a 3.5 in Bio from a crappy school, I'm gussing you have no shot.

nerv wrote:I was wondering what my chances at H were with a GPA in the mid 3s (let's say 3.5) from a stem subject and a LSAT that is above their 75th percentile. Assume average recommendations and softs with brief (1 to 2 years) substantive work experience. Will the falling numbers of law school applicants, particularly those with higher LSATs, improve my chances much compared to previous years? Also, is there a large difference between applying late this cycle (so sometime this month) as opposed to early in the next one?

Based on LSN, you would have about a 5% shot with a ~3.5/175+. Probably less if the rest of your app is average. The drop in apps wont really help you overcome the GPA floor. http://myLSN.info/e926eh

Good shot at CCN though.

You would have a better cycle if you applied early next cycle.

Desert Fox wrote:

ChampagnePapi wrote:extremely unlikely but worth shooting an app anyways

I know a guy who claimed to get into Harvard with a 3.4 from Georgia Tech EE and a 178. I believe him because 3.4 at GT is really good, their curve is brutal.

If your school is similar you might have a shot. But if you a 3.5 in Bio from a crappy school, I'm gussing you have no shot.

My degree is in the EM part of STEM and it is from somewhere ranked top 5 in the US news rankings, but I thought law schools didn't care so much about what major or school the degree is from.

Chances are a lot better than they used to be. The vaunted 3.7 floor softened up a lot last cycle, and probably will continue to soften as apps keep declining.

nerv wrote: I thought law schools didn't care so much about what major or school the degree is from.

True of most schools, but not Harvard. Numbers still make up the majority of the decision, but yours are probably good enough to get that deeper look.

nerv wrote:

Desert Fox wrote:

ChampagnePapi wrote:extremely unlikely but worth shooting an app anyways

I know a guy who claimed to get into Harvard with a 3.4 from Georgia Tech EE and a 178. I believe him because 3.4 at GT is really good, their curve is brutal.

If your school is similar you might have a shot. But if you a 3.5 in Bio from a crappy school, I'm gussing you have no shot.

My degree is in the EM part of STEM and it is from somewhere ranked top 5 in the US news rankings, but I thought law schools didn't care so much about what major or school the degree is from.

There are two reasons why normally where you went to school doesn't matter.

1) Fairness and diversity - these schools don't just want to funnel ivy grads into top schools and the expense of everyone else.

2) Where you went to school doesn't really change how good a law student you'll be

3) UsNews doesn't include where you went to school.

Harvard doesn't really play the USNEWS game nearly as hard as other schools because it's already a top school, and will always be. They are above it, at least in part.

Since they don't have to play the numbers game, they can make exceptions for someone who finished near the top of their class at a good school. It's just accounting for the fact that you did well. They don't have to be a slave to the "numbers." Why wouldn't they take top of the class with a 178? Just because top of the class gets a 3.5 they are going to reject you? That's stupid. It works against reason 1 for not taking it account.

This really only matters if 3.5 was a good GPA in your school, and the Harvard admissions people know it. But if 3.5 was only mediocre at your school, you are probably fucked.

Desert Fox wrote: This really only matters if 3.5 was a good GPA in your school, and the Harvard admissions people know it. But if 3.5 was only mediocre at your school, you are probably fucked.

I'm not sure where it ranks exactly. Probably better than average but not top of the class. Do they care about major vs. overall gpa or things like that?

nerv wrote:

Desert Fox wrote: This really only matters if 3.5 was a good GPA in your school, and the Harvard admissions people know it. But if 3.5 was only mediocre at your school, you are probably fucked.

I'm not sure where it ranks exactly. Probably better than average but not top of the class. Do they care about major vs. overall gpa or things like that?

Then you probably don't have a good shot. The guy I was talking about had really good grades for his school. Harvard is looking for exceptional people.

FYI theres one person on here with a 3.4 who got a JS1 and is not a urm. Its worth an app at least

ChampagnePapi wrote:FYI theres one person on here with a 3.4 who got a JS1 and is not a urm. Its worth an app at least

Do you know what his LSAT was?

Tiago Splitter wrote:Chances are a lot better than they used to be. The vaunted 3.7 floor softened up a lot last cycle, and probably will continue to soften as apps keep declining.

nerv wrote: I thought law schools didn't care so much about what major or school the degree is from.

True of most schools, but not Harvard. Numbers still make up the majority of the decision, but yours are probably good enough to get that deeper look.

i thought it was a 3.8 floor for H?

nerv wrote:

ChampagnePapi wrote:FYI theres one person on here with a 3.4 who got a JS1 and is not a urm. Its worth an app at least

Do you know what his LSAT was?

Very high LSAT, don't remember exact number

http://www.lawschoolnumbers.com/soyyo

twinkletoes16 wrote:

Tiago Splitter wrote:Chances are a lot better than they used to be. The vaunted 3.7 floor softened up a lot last cycle, and probably will continue to soften as apps keep declining.

nerv wrote: I thought law schools didn't care so much about what major or school the degree is from.

True of most schools, but not Harvard. Numbers still make up the majority of the decision, but yours are probably good enough to get that deeper look.

i thought it was a 3.8 floor for H?

In the last few cycles it was about 3.7 if you could put up an LSAT near 180. Last cycle a 3.5 got in and then a 3.4 off the waitlist. The 3.4 is the most intriguing, because that guy got rejected at Chicago and WLed at Columbia and Michigan.

Tiago Splitter wrote:

twinkletoes16 wrote:

Tiago Splitter wrote:Chances are a lot better than they used to be. The vaunted 3.7 floor softened up a lot last cycle, and probably will continue to soften as apps keep declining.

nerv wrote: I thought law schools didn't care so much about what major or school the degree is from.

True of most schools, but not Harvard. Numbers still make up the majority of the decision, but yours are probably good enough to get that deeper look.

i thought it was a 3.8 floor for H?

In the last few cycles it was about 3.7 if you could put up an LSAT near 180. Last cycle a 3.5 got in and then a 3.4 off the waitlist. The 3.4 is the most intriguing, because that guy got rejected at Chicago and WLed at Columbia and Michigan.

So my 3.7/174 doesn't make me completely SOL? Wonder if I should retake in Feb

twinkletoes16 wrote: So my 3.7/174 doesn't make me completely SOL? Wonder if I should retake in Feb

No, you definitely still have a shot. Y and S generally have a 3.8 floor; H has been 3.7, but even that softened up last cycle. Odds are against an outright acceptance, though, meaning a ride on the WL would probably come first.

Do you feel confident that you could improve on your 174? Getting to or above their 75th percentile would improve your chances some.

twinkletoes16 wrote: So my 3.7/174 doesn't make me completely SOL? Wonder if I should retake in Feb

Probably SOL, but like the OP not totally out of it like you'd have been two years ago. Retaking a 174 with your GPA isn't the pointless dice roll it would be for most people, so I say go for it if you were getting some upper 170's PTs before.

Desert Fox wrote:

nerv wrote:

Desert Fox wrote: This really only matters if 3.5 was a good GPA in your school, and the Harvard admissions people know it. But if 3.5 was only mediocre at your school, you are probably fucked.

I'm not sure where it ranks exactly. Probably better than average but not top of the class. Do they care about major vs. overall gpa or things like that?

Then you probably don't have a good shot. The guy I was talking about had really good grades for his school. Harvard is looking for exceptional people.

That guy had latin honors to show how good a 3.4 really was. That's probably what it takes.

Tiago Splitter wrote:

twinkletoes16 wrote: So my 3.7/174 doesn't make me completely SOL? Wonder if I should retake in Feb

Probably SOL, but like the OP not totally out of it like you'd have been two years ago. Retaking a 174 with your GPA isn't the pointless dice roll it would be for most people, so I say go for it if you were getting some upper 170's PTs before.

I'm tempted but also don't want to score lower. I was at 174s/176/177s but unsure if it was because I had to repeat tests or what. I'd need a 2 point boost to get out of SOL territory?

You're not SOL, but your odds are low.