Top Law Schools

Hi I am a UC Berkeley undergraduate and I want to seek some advice in the fall 2014 application.

I finished UC Berkeley with 3.778(UC GPA) and 3.798 (LSDAS GPA) in 2.5 years.

I am 21 years old.

I finished Berkeley with 5 semesters and 1 summer in economics. I didn't want to stay in school for a very long time so I crammed many courses in 1 semester. AP credits also helped me waive some courses and helped me out with units.

I got 171 on LSAT and I am planning to apply for fall 2014 and I intend to finish application on early October 2013.

I don't have a spectacular EC. I am just Average Joe. My letters of rec are really strong because two professors and I are very close.

The things that worry me are lack of experience in University and average EC that does not really stand out. I wanted to stay in school longer but I didn't want to do extra major and I couldn't justify paying $19000 for each semester (I am out-of-state applicant).

After graduating in December, I am just doing some volunteering service at a clinic. I am also planning to travel.

I am planning to apply "only" to Yale, Harvard, Stanford, Columbia, NYU, Chicago, Berkeley, UPENN, and Cornell for Fall 2014 cycle.

I know I would be wasting application fee at Yale, Harvard, and Stanford.

I just want a honest opinion for my chances at these schools that I listed above. I am not going to apply to any safety school. I don't need any advice on applying to any other school. If none of the schools listed above accepts me, I am not planning on going to law school. I don't need financial aid. I just need to get in.

Please help me out.

P.S. I am not URM.

Your numbers are good so your pretty competitive everywhere excep HYS. Don't worry too much about not doing those ECs in school. Just get some work experience since you're not applying till next year.

HYS - chances are really low (practically 0%) since you are below both the LSAT and GPA medians and you said that you are just a normal guy with no outstanding factors.

Columbia - you have around 30-40% chance, you could really help yourself out by retaking here as well by retaking because I believe their LSAT median is 172. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Chicago - around the same chance as Columbia. You're above their LSAT median but below their GPA median and they have a small class size so they can afford to be picky.

NYU - you're in

UPenn - your numbers are good enough but they are know to waitlist numbers like yours because of YP.

Berk - numbers are good but who knows with them. Could be WL or IN

Cornell - you're in unless they WL you because of YP

If you want to improve your chances at Columbia/HYS then retaking your LSAT would really help you out. The only other advice I can offer is for you to apply to the other Top 14 schools even if you don't want to go there just so you can use them for scholarship negotiation, because you will definitely get money from lower T14. Hope that helps.

There will be a lot of yield protect this cycle.

I agree with lilhugs. Competitive everywhere except HYS. Cal-B is tough to call since their process is GPA-heavy, but they may give you some extra credit since you have a Berkeley degree already.

If you could pick up another two or three LSAT points you could possibly snag H.

I don't see why you would think that I am "in" on NYU. I just looked at their median gpa and I am few points below.

Moreover, I find this post more optimistic than I had predicted. My gpa is below median for UPENN as well.

I am not planning to take LSAT again because I am worried that I will score lower on LSAT. I don't even know how I got 171.

Also, what do you guys think about graduating early? I hope it doesn't hurt my chance.

ljh912000 wrote:I don't see why you would think that I am "in" on NYU. I just looked at their median gpa and I am few points below.

Where are you seeing this info? You're above NYU's median GPA last year (http://i.imgur.com/58ayG.png) and likely this year as well (http://www.law.nyu.edu/admissions/jdadm ... /index.htm). Also, if the LSAT median did indeed drop to 171 for c/o 2015, you're at/above both medians. Also take a look at their LSN graph: http://nyu.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats.

H has already accepted people at/under both 25ths with no obviously stellar softs. It's not as predictable as you might think, unless you're soaring above both 75ths.

Ya all should keep in mind the application volume this cycle. That'll move needles.

I know a guy who got NYU already with a 170 3.9. With the drop in takers and applicants I'm almost positive they would take your 171.

lilhugsy24 wrote:Your numbers are good so your pretty competitive everywhere excep HYS. Don't worry too much about not doing those ECs in school. Just get some work experience since you're not applying till next year.

HYS - chances are really low (practically 0%) since you are below both the LSAT and GPA medians and you said that you are just a normal guy with no outstanding factors.

Columbia - you have around 30-40% chance, you could really help yourself out by retaking here as well by retaking because I believe their LSAT median is 172. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Chicago - around the same chance as Columbia. You're above their LSAT median but below their GPA median and they have a small class size so they can afford to be picky.

NYU - you're in

UPenn - your numbers are good enough but they are know to waitlist numbers like yours because of YP.

Berk - numbers are good but who knows with them. Could be WL or IN

Cornell - you're in unless they WL you because of YP

If you want to improve your chances at Columbia/HYS then retaking your LSAT would really help you out. The only other advice I can offer is for you to apply to the other Top 14 schools even if you don't want to go there just so you can use them for scholarship negotiation, because you will definitely get money from lower T14. Hope that helps.

Good advice here. Outside of YHS, your chances are probably lowest at B. Not because your numbers are too low, but just because numbers are less predictive for B than most. See: http://myLSN.info/ql4ojd. Your numbers should basically guarantee admission to Penn, but they play the YP game to a ridiculous degree, so you'll really have to convince them that you want them to avoid the WL.

Pay attention to the part about applying to more T14 schools. Even if you have no intention of attending any other school, which is fine, you need to apply just to pick up scholarship offers for use as leverage when you negotiate with your favorites.

What does it mean by YP? Several posters above mentioned the OP might be waitlisted because of YP?

EDIT: Nvm, just found out. Cruel world

ljh912000 wrote:
I am not planning to take LSAT again because I am worried that I will score lower on LSAT. I don't even know how I got 171.

This is a terrible reason to not retake the LSAT, though it's maybe slightly less terrible since you have a small chance at HYS, who do apparently consider all your scores. There's plenty of evidence that schools generally only care about your highest score, since that's what they report to USNWR.

In at NYU, 50/50 at Columbia, waitlist-->admit at Chicago.

Elston Gunn wrote:

ljh912000 wrote:
I am not planning to take LSAT again because I am worried that I will score lower on LSAT. I don't even know how I got 171.

This is a terrible reason to not retake the LSAT, though it's maybe slightly less terrible since you have a small chance at HYS, who do apparently consider all your scores. There's plenty of evidence that schools generally only care about your highest score, since that's what they report to USNWR.

But it's not like he was PTing higher, OP said he felt lucky getting 171.

.

With your current LSAT and GPA combination, you are definitely competitive at CCN. According to myLSN, you have a 75% chance at NYU, 50% chance at Columbia, and 35% chance at Chicago. I would give you even higher chances because of the decrease in applications over the past 2 years, so I would easily say you're a lock at 2 of 3 at CCN.

This being said, you're in worse shape at HYS. You have practically no chance at YS, but you have a very small chance at H (around 10-15%). This being said, I've noticed this year that H has gone lower in their GPAs, but they haven't been similarly kind to below median LSAT scores. Therefore, if you want to improve your chances at H, then your best bet is to retake the LSAT and try to get a 173-174. According to myLSN, a 2-3 point bump increases your odds to around 50% for H.

Edit- One thing to possibly consider with Y is that if your two professors are very well known and in fields related to law, this would give you a greater than 0% chance of acceptance (around 5-10%). This is because of Y's unique application process.