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Just found this site, lots of great info. First post.

Being non-traditional and AA male URM, myLSN and other "predictors" aren't that accurate, so I figured I would get some human advice.

So, with a 3.65/172 + AA male URM + non-trad (rough background and socioeconomic conditions, 4+ yrs out of undergrad, lots of relevant work experience, worked full-time during UG etc), what would my chances be?

I'm shooting for HYSCCN but figure my GPA is too low for them?

anonymous0101 wrote:Just found this site, lots of great info. First post.

Being non-traditional and AA male URM, myLSN and other "predictors" aren't that accurate, so I figured I would get some human advice.

So, with a 3.65/172 + AA male URM + non-trad (rough background and socioeconomic conditions, 4+ yrs out of undergrad, lots of relevant work experience, worked full-time during UG etc), what would my chances be?

I'm shooting for HYSCCN but figure my GPA is too low for them?

You will likely get into at least one of HYS because you're URM

Dat LSAT + URM = overrides GPA.

http://myLSN.info/x9h7fn

TripTrip wrote:Dat LSAT + URM = overrides GPA.

http://myLSN.info/x9h7fn

Whoa. That's welcome news. Had no idea chances at HYS were so high. I'm aiming for H but thought I had no chance. myLSN seems to indicate 100% of applicants with my #s got in?

Thanks a bunch. I'm trying to boost my GPA as much as possible but I don't think it'll go any higher than a 3.68 by next September.

AssumptionRequired wrote:

anonymous0101 wrote:Just found this site, lots of great info. First post.

Being non-traditional and AA male URM, myLSN and other "predictors" aren't that accurate, so I figured I would get some human advice.

So, with a 3.65/172 + AA male URM + non-trad (rough background and socioeconomic conditions, 4+ yrs out of undergrad, lots of relevant work experience, worked full-time during UG etc), what would my chances be?

I'm shooting for HYSCCN but figure my GPA is too low for them?

You will likely get into at least one of HYS because you're URM

The URM status counts that much more than WE, background, etc?

anonymous0101 wrote:

AssumptionRequired wrote:

anonymous0101 wrote:Just found this site, lots of great info. First post.

Being non-traditional and AA male URM, myLSN and other "predictors" aren't that accurate, so I figured I would get some human advice.

So, with a 3.65/172 + AA male URM + non-trad (rough background and socioeconomic conditions, 4+ yrs out of undergrad, lots of relevant work experience, worked full-time during UG etc), what would my chances be?

I'm shooting for HYSCCN but figure my GPA is too low for them?

You will likely get into at least one of HYS because you're URM

The URM status counts that much more than WE, background, etc?

Definitely.

Congrats! You should be getting into at least two of YHS.

anonymous0101 wrote:The URM status counts that much more than WE, background, etc?

Had you worked for six years on a PhD with extensive research in curing a major disease, written multiple published papers, been a D1 athlete, had helped draft a developing nation's constitution, and received a purple heart, all those combined are less helpful than being a URM.

twentypercentmore wrote:

anonymous0101 wrote:The URM status counts that much more than WE, background, etc?

Had you worked for six years on a PhD with extensive research in curing a major disease, written multiple published papers, been a D1 athlete, had helped draft a developing nation's constitution, and received a purple heart, all those combined are less helpful than being a URM.

My response to this is that pre-law undergrad counselors are U.S.E.L.E.S.S.

That or I'm getting flamed by this entire site.

So then what is the AA male URM GPA floor for HYS, if not mine? lol

twentypercentmore wrote:

anonymous0101 wrote:The URM status counts that much more than WE, background, etc?

Had you worked for six years on a PhD with extensive research in curing a major disease, written multiple published papers, been a D1 athlete, had helped draft a developing nation's constitution, and received a purple heart, all those combined are less helpful than being a URM.

Hyperbole much?

Nah bro. All of those are actual examples of softs I've seen on LSN. Haven't seen them all combined yet, but there's some impressive people out there that don't get in.

twentypercentmore wrote:Nah bro. All of those are actual examples of softs I've seen on LSN. Haven't seen them all combined yet, but there's some impressive people out there that don't get in.

I remember that chick that wrote a bestseller and got into Yale with a 160. And combining all of the things you mentioned is doubtful to be <URM. But each soft alone: I see your point.

anonymous0101 wrote:

twentypercentmore wrote:

anonymous0101 wrote:The URM status counts that much more than WE, background, etc?

Had you worked for six years on a PhD with extensive research in curing a major disease, written multiple published papers, been a D1 athlete, had helped draft a developing nation's constitution, and received a purple heart, all those combined are less helpful than being a URM.

My response to this is that pre-law undergrad counselors are U.S.E.L.E.S.S.

That or I'm getting flamed by this entire site.

So then what is the AA male URM GPA floor for HYS, if not mine? lol

Prelaw advisors are almost uniformly worthless. Stay away from them.

Your GPA is definitely not the floor for YHS. The lowest GPA in the last admitted class at YLS was a 3.49.

Thanks for all of the advice.

Two more questions:

1. Should I shoot for a retake if I think I can score a bit higher?
2. I'm mixed race (Dad - AA, Mom - not), does this lower that vaunted boost?

anonymous0101 wrote:1. Should I shoot for a retake if I think I can score a bit higher?
2. I'm mixed race (Dad - AA, Mom - not), does this lower that vaunted boost?

1. When are you planning on applying? If this cycle, then no. If next, TLS always says retake. I really don't think it is necessary in your case. However, if you're up to the task, it won't hurt you.
2. No.

anonymous0101 wrote:Thanks for all of the advice.

Two more questions:

1. Should I shoot for a retake if I think I can score a bit higher?
2. I'm mixed race (Dad - AA, Mom - not), does this lower that vaunted boost?

We're almost numbers and situation twins (3.7/170/mixed race URM).

Answer to 1: Sure. I'm retaking my 170 shooting for higher.
Answer to 2: I don't know. The consensus seems to be that it makes no difference but I'm not 100% sure. I'm not sure if any odd factors diminish the boost - last name, skin color, etc. I would think (hope) not. If you want maximum boost, consensus seems to be to provide a Diversity Statement. But again, not sure on this question.

John_rizzy_rawls wrote:Answer to 2: I don't know. The consensus seems to be that it makes no difference but I'm not 100% sure.

Here's a diversity statement ABOUT being half and half: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 14&t=25821

You'd very likely get CCN even without URM.

Enjoy HYS.

twentypercentmore wrote:

anonymous0101 wrote:The URM status counts that much more than WE, background, etc?

Had you worked for six years on a PhD with extensive research in curing a major disease, written multiple published papers, been a D1 athlete, had helped draft a developing nation's constitution, and received a purple heart, all those combined are less helpful than being a URM.

You just provided me with 3 minutes of laughs...

OP, you should be more than fine for the T6. I got CCN with a .1 lower GPA and 3 points lower on the LSAT. I would be really surprised if you didn't get at least 2 of HYS. The Yale thing is a little iffy because of your GPA (they really love people with GPAs above 3.8 and might even take someone with a 3.8/166-168 instead of you). Your chances there will be better if you went to a top 20 school for UG. There's no reason not to think positively about your chances at Y with your current numbers.

Congrats in advance. You should have a VERY successful application cycle!

PS I see no reason to retake a 172. You already in the 99th percentile generally and very high into the 99th percentile for AA test takers. But if you really think you can do significantly better (175+), then go crazy. I don't know how much value a slightly higher score would add, though.

dude ur gonna get in everywhere. its going to be ridiculous your gonna have to fend off ccn bec hys will be gunning for u.

i am totally serious not joking at all. dude i think u can get serious scholly from chicago/nyu and columbia

amc987 wrote:OP, you should be more than fine for the T6. I got CCN with a .1 lower GPA and 3 points lower on the LSAT. I would be really surprised if you didn't get at least 2 of HYS. The Yale thing is a little iffy because of your GPA (they really love people with GPAs above 3.8 and might even take someone with a 3.8/166-168 instead of you). Your chances there will be better if you went to a top 20 school for UG. There's no reason not to think positively about your chances at Y with your current numbers.

Congrats in advance. You should have a VERY successful application cycle!

PS I see no reason to retake a 172. You already in the 99th percentile generally and very high into the 99th percentile for AA test takers. But if you really think you can do significantly better (175+), then go crazy. I don't know how much value a slightly higher score would add, though.

Yale taking a 166/3.8 over a 3.65/172 urm. Lolz

deputydog wrote:Yale taking a 166/3.8 over a 3.65/172 urm. Lolz

In case my post wasn't clear, I meant that Yale might admit a 3.8+/166-168 URM over a 3.65/172 URM. I didn't mean that they'd be likely to choose a 3.8/166 non-URM over a 3.65/172 URM. I'm sure weirder things have happened, however.

Anecdotally, I know 4 AAs who applied to YLS last cycle. The first is a 3.7/170 AA male who was rejected. The second is a 3.85/165 AA male who was wait listed. The third is a 4.0/165 AA male who was accepted. And the 4th is a 4.0/172 AA female who was accepted. Just for some context, the first two people were accepted at H and S, the third was accepted at H and Y, and the fourth was accepted at HYS. There are obviously factors other than sheer numbers at play here (quality of essays, LORs, resume, UG institution, etc.), but I think it's reasonable to say that in certain cases, Yale favors GPA over LSAT for URMs to the extent that having a 3.65 might hurt the chances of a URM with a 172 LSAT.

Like I said, I would be surprised if OP didn't get at least 2 of the 3 because his numbers are very solid. But you never know for sure until you actually apply. A few cycles ago, an AA woman with a 3.65/171 got all of HYS. However, this cycle an AA woman with a 3.78/171 got S but not H or Y while a 3.7/174 AA woman swept HYS. Given OP's numbers, predicting his result at Y is more of an art than a science. His best bet is to put together the best app he can and hope for the best.

anonymous0101 wrote:

TripTrip wrote:Dat LSAT + URM = overrides GPA.

http://myLSN.info/x9h7fn

Whoa. That's welcome news. Had no idea chances at HYS were so high. I'm aiming for H but thought I had no chance. myLSN seems to indicate 100% of applicants with my #s got in?

Thanks a bunch. I'm trying to boost my GPA as much as possible but I don't think it'll go any higher than a 3.68 by next September.

How do you plan on boosting your GPA when you have been out of UG for 4+ years?