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Quoted from later ITT:

Just got December back.



Pretty overwhelmed ATM. Was prepared for a 165. Where the hell should I be applying now?

North wrote:Here's my 168-based list:

• • Georgetown:
  • Cornell (favorite, but didn't make the EA deadline :
  • BC:
  • BU: In
  • Texas:
  • Vandy (growing on me):
  • GW: In
  • ND:
  • Emory (not a fan):
  • UF:
  • FSU: In
  • UCLA:
  And, shout out to Nova:
  • WUSTL: In
  • UMinn: Waitlist

Cornell might be a possibility, probably not though. The rest are out. Shoot for a 170 in December.

ChampagnePapi wrote:Cornell might be a possibility, probably not though. The rest are out. Shoot for a 170 in December.

He might hit an acceptance with an ED GULC or ED UVA

TheThriller wrote:He might hit an acceptance with an ED GULC or ED UVA

Hadn't thought of the GULC ED, that's definitely possible with their median drop. Financial suicide, though? How do you figure UVA might happen? That's my top choice.

North wrote:Just got it back. 168. I want T-14 more than anything, will this get me there?

More specifically, what T-14 apps should I send in before my December retake? That's the important question.

1) congrats, 96th percentile. Think about that, in a room of 100 people you performed in the top 4.

2) Looks like your biggest reach in my opinion is ED duke (i thinnk there cut off is NOV 4th so do some quick research)

3) I dont think UVA would happen but it is a down cycle so maybe but you are below both medians

4) seems like you could pull of GULC, probably a very very strong chance GULC with an ED

5) I know not a lot about cornell but look into them

Dont take any of this as pure truth, double check before you make any big (ED) decesions

Br3v wrote:

North wrote:Just got it back. 168. I want T-14 more than anything, will this get me there?

More specifically, what T-14 apps should I send in before my December retake? That's the important question.

1) congrats, 96th percentile. Think about that, in a room of 100 people you performed in the top 4.

2) Looks like your biggest reach in my opinion is ED duke (i thinnk there cut off is NOV 4th so do some quick research)

3) I dont think UVA would happen but it is a down cycle so maybe but you are below both medians

4) seems like you could pull of GULC, probably a very very strong chance GULC with an ED

5) I know not a lot about cornell but look into them

Dont take any of this as pure truth, double check before you make any big (ED) decesions

Thank you Brev. God, you think I could nab Duke? I wrote them off a year ago. Why the fuck didn't write my PS... Really wasn't expecting to get a workable score.

Okay, so here's the new medians so far:

KevinP wrote:Format:
School Name (U.S. News Rank): LSAT Median (change), GPA Median (change), Class Size (change)
Yale (#1) 173 (0), 3.9 (0), 203 (-2, -0.97%)
Harvard (#3): ? (?), ? (?), 557 (-2, -0.36%) *25th/75th GPA: 3.77 (-.01) / 3.95(-.02). 25th/75th LSAT: 170 (-1) / 175 (-1)
Columbia (#4): 172 (0), 3.71 (-.01), 368 (-38 , -9.36%)
Chicago (LinkRemoved) (#5): 171 (0), 3.9 (+.03), 184 (-7, -3.66%)
NYU (#6): ? (?), ? (?), 452 (+2, +0.44%) *25th/75th GPA: 3.5 (-.07) / 3.8 (-.05). 25th/75th LSAT: 169 (-1) / 173 (-1)
Berkeley (#7): 167 (0), 3.81 (+.02), 265 (+11, +4.15%)
Penn (#7): ? (?), ? (?), 243 (-23, -8.65%) *25th/75th GPA: 3.56 (-.02) / 3.95 (+.02). 25th/75th LSAT: 164 (-2) / 171 (0)
Virginia (#7): 170 (0), 3.87 (+.01), 358 (+1, +0.28%)
Michigan (#10): 169 (0), 3.73 (-.03), 345 (-14, -3.9%)
Duke (#11): ? (?), ? (?), 208 (-3, -1.42%) *No LSAT/GPA breakdowns yet.
GULC (#13): 169 (-1), 3.73 (+.02), 578 (-1, -0.17%)
Cornell (#14): 167 (-1), 3.68 (+.05), 194 (-10, -4.9%)

It seems like I'm below median everywhere but Cornell (which I would love). You guys have given me hope. Is that hope still warranted after looking at the above?

Duke is absolutely out.

My Duke advice has been based off of this years Duke thread and LSN, they appear to be allowing some lower (as in 168) scores than last year, though they are GPA heavy so that may be a big negative for you to overcome. If you love cornel I would for sure target as much of your app as you can to them, seems like you have a great shot.

ChampagnePapi wrote:Duke is absolutely out.

eh, I mean his GPA is low but why? Have you been following Duke this year or is this statement made off of last years numbers?

Good job North. Good luck in Dec.

Cornell is of course your best shot in the T14.

You have a great shot everywhere from UCLA down.

IDK about app strategy tho. Apply to Cornell now for sure.

Br3v wrote:

ChampagnePapi wrote:Duke is absolutely out.

eh, I mean his GPA is low but why? Have you been following Duke this year or is this statement made off of last years numbers?

I've followed it, I think they ARE relaxing their GPA floor a bit (and they did a bit last year too) but I think sub-3.4 is too much for them to swallow

Alright guys, here's the list of schools I'm going to apply to with my 3.35/168 before my December retake.

Note: Ideally, I'd like to break into D.C. If that doesn't work out, somewhere in the Northeast or Southeast. I'd like to maximize my chances at BigLaw.

T-14s that I would go to in a heartbeat

• • Cornell University (I love Cornell)
  • Georgetown ED (can't decide, see below)

Decent Regional schools, all of which have decent employment prospects and most of which I wouldn't mind attending

• • Boston College (I like Boston, wouldn't mind working there)
  • Boston University (Wouldn't go because of their bad employment stats and ugly ass building, but I figure they might be useful for scholly negotiations)
  • Emory University (My GF requested this one, she likes Atlanta)
  • Florida State University (In-state)
  • George Washington University (Would consider switching to ED for the full-ride if December doesn't work out)
  • University of Notre Dame (I like it, but probably wouldn't want to live in Illinois)
  • University of Florida (In-state)

I can't decide on the Georgetown ED. I'm below both medians... I would do it if the consensus is that I'd have a chance. But I'm afraid I'd be rejected outright and lose out on GTown for this cycle. What do you think?

Is there anything else I should add to either? It was rough making such a non-T14-centric list.

North wrote:Alright guys, here's the list of schools I'm going to apply to with my 3.35/168 before my December retake.

Note: Ideally, I'd like to break into D.C. If that doesn't work out, somewhere in the Northeast or Southeast. I'd like to maximize my chances at BigLaw.

T-14s that I would go to in a heartbeat

• • Cornell University (I love Cornell)
  • Georgetown ED (can't decide, see below)

Decent Regional schools, all of which have decent employment prospects and most of which I wouldn't mind attending

• • Boston College (I like Boston, wouldn't mind working there)
  • Boston University (Wouldn't go because of their bad employment stats and ugly ass building, but I figure they might be useful for scholly negotiations)
  • Emory University (My GF requested this one, she likes Atlanta)
  • Florida State University (In-state)
  • George Washington University (Would consider switching to ED for the full-ride if December doesn't work out)
  • University of Notre Dame (I like it, but probably wouldn't want to live in Illinois)
  • University of Florida (In-state)

I can't decide on the Georgetown ED. I'm below both medians... I would do it if the consensus is that I'd have a chance. But I'm afraid I'd be rejected outright and lose out on GTown for this cycle. What do you think?

Is there anything else I should add to either? It was rough making such a non-T14-centric list.

Where do you want to end up living and working? E.g. If you can get substantial scholly (i.e. around half) at UFlorida with the in-state rates and you want to be in FL ultimately I think that UF would be a better choice than Cornell or GULC at sticker for you. Staying in Florida will give you the advantage of having ties to the market--anywhere else you have ties?

As a general matter, add WUSTL.

Lawquacious wrote:Where do you want to end up living and working? E.g. If you can get substantial scholly (i.e. around half) at UFlorida with the in-state rates and you want to be in FL ultimately I think that UF would be a better choice than Cornell or GULC at sticker for you. Staying in Florida will give you the advantage of having ties to the market--anywhere else you have ties?

As a general matter, add WUSTL.

North wrote:Note: Ideally, I'd like to break into D.C. If that doesn't work out, somewhere in the Northeast or Southeast. I'd like to maximize my chances at BigLaw.

WUSTL's employment stats scare me and I don't want to live in Missouri. Is it a scholarship negotiation thing?

Don't ED Georgetown if you're retaking in December. Even with ED your chances are very slim with that 168. But with a 170 you would be looking at at least a 50% shot and with 172+ you would be a lock.

North wrote:

North wrote:Note: Ideally, I'd like to break into D.C. If that doesn't work out, somewhere in the Northeast or Southeast. I'd like to maximize my chances at BigLaw.

WUSTL's employment stats scare me and I don't want to live in Missouri. Is it a scholarship negotiation thing?

Im guessing thats exactly what he means. May as well request fee waivers from UMN and other T30 midwest schools that give big scholarships to rapplicants with relatively high LSATs too.

Nova wrote:Im guessing thats exactly what he means. May as well request fee waivers from UMN and other T30 midwest schools that give big scholarships to rapplicants with relatively high LSATs too.

Alright! Will do. I hadn't even thought to request fee waivers -- thanks Nova. My understanding of scholarship negotiation is clearly lacking, I'll read up on it tonight. Thanks, Lawquacious.

Crowing wrote:Don't ED Georgetown if you're retaking in December. Even with ED your chances are very slim with that 168. But with a 170 you would be looking at at least a 50% shot and with 172+ you would be a lock.

That's what I thought and was worried about. Third opinion to override TheThriller's advice above? I'm leaning towards not doing it to keep GTown on the table.

Come on now. As a longtime TLSer, you know LSN will help you and so will a retake.

north was this your first lsat?

North, if it means anything, we can use each other for motivation. I'm retaking as well even though I sent apps out this cycle.

And to help you with your decisions, I am a 2.97/167 although my gpa will go up at the end of the year. So far:

GULC PT - rejected
ND - rejected

Br3v wrote:north was this your first lsat?

Yeah. I put seven months into it, though. Pretty disappointed, but surprised considering how bad I thought I had done as I was walking out of the test center.

CorkBoard wrote:Come on now. As a longtime TLSer, you know LSN will help you and so will a retake.

Now, now... I've spent plenty of time on LSN for a couple years now. I'm already registered and studying for a retake. ITT I'm primarily trying to work out my application strategy. A 168 is kind of workable, so I'm trying to balance the benefit of an early application to the schools where it might get me in against the potential benefit of two more points on my December retake.

Damn, it's rough on the other side of these threads.

TheThriller wrote:North, if it means anything, we can use each other for motivation. I'm retaking as well even though I sent apps out this cycle.

And to help you with your decisions, I am a 2.97/167 although my gpa will go up at the end of the year. So far:

GULC PT - rejected
ND - rejected

Sounds good brother, no rest for the weary. I'm kicking back into high gear on Monday after shaking off the burn out and disappointment for a couple weeks. I'm surprised ND didn't WL you. That doesn't bode well for us... 170+ or bust all over again, then.

Sounds good brother, no rest for the weary. I'm kicking back into high gear on Monday after shaking off the burn out and disappointment for a couple weeks. I'm surprised ND didn't WL you. That doesn't bode well for us... 170+ or bust all over again, then.

I know, I was a bit surprised myself. Oh well, more motivation for me anyways.

Brothha North, I know you will roll a 170+ in December!

North wrote:

Lawquacious wrote:Where do you want to end up living and working? E.g. If you can get substantial scholly (i.e. around half) at UFlorida with the in-state rates and you want to be in FL ultimately I think that UF would be a better choice than Cornell or GULC at sticker for you. Staying in Florida will give you the advantage of having ties to the market--anywhere else you have ties?

As a general matter, add WUSTL.

North wrote:Note: Ideally, I'd like to break into D.C. If that doesn't work out, somewhere in the Northeast or Southeast. I'd like to maximize my chances at BigLaw.

WUSTL's employment stats scare me and I don't want to live in Missouri. Is it a scholarship negotiation thing?

Actually, I was just meaning it might generally be a good school to add to your non-T14 targets, but the fact that they can be generous to splitters with scholly is another factor that could weigh in favor of applying. Not sure how much money you might get, but I think it's definitely possible that you would get (a good) discount.

If want to avoid the Midwest it's probably not a great option though, even if you wouldn't necessarily be stuck in Missouri (WUSTL does have more reach than some other similarly ranked schools IMO, but still I wouldn't go there unless you were comfortable with the possibility of ending up somewhere in Midwest).

Sorry if I missed it, but where are your ties (places you have lived for at least a couple years)? Where do you want to end up? Without that info, it is hard to give advice due to how the legal market is structured.

WUSTL Schollys last year:

169/3.3 60k
169/3.2 108k
169/3.3 75k
169/3.0 45k
168/3.4 105k
168/3.2 72k
168/3.0 60k
168/3.3 60k
168/3.4 75k

UMN:

169/3.3 60k
168/3.3 90k
168/3.3 72k
168/3.4 54k
168/2.8 81k
167/2.5 69k
167/3.0 69k
167/3.4 69k
167/3.3 72k
167/2.5 71k
167/3.4 60k
167/3.0 72k

Nova wrote:WUSTL Schollys last year:

169/3.3 60k
169/3.2 108k
169/3.3 75k
169/3.0 45k
168/3.4 105k
168/3.2 72k
168/3.0 60k
168/3.3 60k
168/3.4 75k

UMN:

169/3.3 60k
168/3.3 90k
168/3.3 72k
168/3.4 54k
168/2.8 81k
167/2.5 69k
167/3.0 69k
167/3.4 69k
167/3.3 72k
167/2.5 71k
167/3.4 60k
167/3.0 72k

Well then.... Holy cow, didn't know the relatively low GPA had little-to-no bearing on a very large award. Enjoy WUSTL or UMN. You'll get used to the cold, North.