Top Law Schools

Studied for the LSAT a bit during undergrad with a Princeton class. Had to take a 4-5 hour train commute to and from Chicago three times a week + undergrad classes while doing so, I almost feel it did more harm than good. I scored a 156.

GPA increased sophomore and junior year to an almost perfect 4.0 when I was taking most of my major classes in Political Science. I took most of my minor classes senior year and scored about a 3.0 in Environmental Sciences. My Freshman year of a 2.0 and my mediocre senior year has me stuck at a 2.92
Once my grades were starting to increase a professor said I would be eligible to study abroad at Oxford. He endorsed me and I spent a summer studying Political Science and Sociology there.

I graduated from college and sold insurance for Allstate and rocked at it. Makin' $$ and my boss wrote me a phenomenal letter of recommendation. I told her that I am going to take a month or two off and finish up my law school apps. She said I can have my job back whenever I want it.

My Criminal Law professor said he could write me a great letter of recommendation. Hopefully that is the case, I won't have it until the weekend.

My Environmental Law professor said he could talk about my GPA trajectory in his letter of recommendation so I do not waste my personal statement on that.

Last minute, while working on my law school applications, I decided to take the October LSAT and studied for 2 weeks with a buddy while he studied for the MCAT. The October results have not returned yet but I want to work off the assumption of a 156. I highly doubt I did any worse.

I worked all throughout college as a Trip Leader. Great job to have in college. I got paid to take people rock climbing, kayaking, etc etc... Learned a lot but I would have never been accepted for the position if I wasn't an Eagle Scout. Another very small soft depending on the person reading my application.

I plan on applying to all Environmental Law schools and still hope at a chance at Boulder or Lewis and Clark. I have not finished my personal statement but for these schools I will focus on my strong background of environmentalism. I have volunteered for the Citizens Climate Lobby and Mercy For Animals since graduating. I have a focus and I hope that will help me with my admissions into the schools that I do not have the right numbers for. But we will see... Until then, a few questions

Will a strong and focused personal statement overcome my poor numbers?

Will these letters of recommendation give me the boost necessary to have a chance at some of the better Environmental Law schools?

Thanks for reading and I hope to hear from you.

Your PS and LOR's will make little to no difference. Are you a URM? That will make a huge difference.

White Male. I remember hearing a Louie skit saying how good it is to be a white man, but that is definitely not the case when applying for law school.

You should retake unless the new score comes in in the mid 160's or better, at least.

Really not an option at this point. No sense in explaining why, they'll just sound like excuses at this point. Will a school like Lewis and Clark even read my personal statement knowing my numbers and my ethnicity?

Probably auto-reject.

ETA: If you have any interest in going to law school, you need to retake; whatever reasons you have for not doing so ARE excuses.

Bummer. Thank you for the info!

Law school admissions isn't based on a glowing personal statement or great letters of rec. It's based in numbers, and yours aren't good enough. Your GPA sucks. You need a high LSAT to overcome it. 167+ at a minimum.

If my October score bumps up to the low 160's you think I'm getting looked at?

Ah ok 167+, was writing my response while you responded. Maybe I'll work for another year and check out the LSAT again.

jmsae wrote:Ah ok 167+, was writing my response while you responded. Maybe I'll work for another year and check out the LSAT again.

A 160 might get you into Lewis and Clark, if you don't mind being on the waitlist forever and paying full-price. Boulder would require a score in the mid 160's to even be considered. Good luck though, but like most people I will tell you to retake as many times as it takes.

jmsae wrote:Ah ok 167+, was writing my response while you responded. Maybe I'll work for another year and check out the LSAT again.

How sure are you that you want a legal career? Lewis and Clark and Boulder won't give you great job prospects, and you'll need a higher LSAT to get into them anyways. As a splitter you probably won't get huge scholarships anywhere and will be forced to go 200k+ in debt, not to mention the opportunity cost of lost years when you're apparently making good money already.

Aim higher and focus on schools with great job prospects. A great environmental law program means nothing if you don't get a job out of it, and chances are that firms that practice in that field are going to be smaller and may not want to hire someone they have to train. Get your job back, start studying for the LSAT and aim for 170+. Since you barely studied I think that there's a good chance you can score that high, or at least close to it. If you can then you could get into a school at a price that will make it worth it to go. If not, I'm sorry to say, you might be better off staying in your current job.

Please retake!!!!!!!!!!!

I had a 3.0 GPA. I would've gotten nowhere if it wasn't for the fact that I got a 167 and had tons of work experience.

Seriously, retake!!!!!!!!!

Oh, and study your ass off before retaking.

jmsae wrote:
I plan on applying to all Environmental Law schools and still hope at a chance at Boulder or Lewis and Clark. I have not finished my personal statement but for these schools I will focus on my strong background of environmentalism. I have volunteered for the Citizens Climate Lobby and Mercy For Animals since graduating.

These are not "Environmental Law" schools. Their reputation for environmental law is a marketing gimmick. They could care less about your commitment to environmentalism. Also, anyone can volunteer.

Stick with being an insurance salesman and try to work your way up although if you are really good at sales, you're probably better off staying there and making tons of commissions rather than going into management. There are a ton of law students out there, many of them at "good" schools, who wish that they didn't go to law school and would love to be able to drop out and be an insurance salesman if they could hack it.

At the very least do the insurance thing for several years, earn a lot of $$, and put some distance between yourself and your GPA and then make a decision about whether you really want to go to law school, recognizing that if you do not break 170 on the LSAT that you will probably not get a job making more than 50K out of law school.

Thank you for all the info and advice!

jmsae wrote:If my October score bumps up to the low 160's you think I'm getting looked at?

Generally, for someone with your GPA, hitting the schools median LSAT will give you a decent shot at admission. Youll need to be above median for a realisitc shot at a decent scholarship.

You don't want to go to any of the law schools you could get into right now.

Work for another year and retake the LSAT until you get a 167+.

Great LORs and grade increase are marginal factors at best.

Environmental Law is a gimmick to get money for schools that don't deserve your money. Go to the best law school you get admitted to. Chances are that there will be at least 1-2 environmental law classes there.

I think I will apply to a few schools to see how I do. At least now I have a plan once I get rejected from all of the schools I'd like to go to. Allstate said they would pay for a portion of my education but that would require a part time legal education in an area that I could be transferred to. There is a silver lining to every cloud, I can use this application process as a learning experience for when I have better stats. One step at a time...

I got a 163 on the October LSAT!

jmsae wrote:I got a 163 on the October LSAT!

Congrats on the improvement! Youre still just under Colorado's median (164), but your chances at L&C have increased dramatically!

I am currently trying to talk my buddy into retaking the LSAT in December and now I am considering it also. It's nice having someone to work with once in a while. As much as I loved my alone time in the library it would be nice to have someone to discuss the test with once in a while.

I thought I would be content with my score of 163 but now I am thinking about putting in more effort and trying to boost that up a bit. I got a -4 RC -4 LR -6 LG -5 LR on the October test. I barely studied for LG or LR before taking the test and focused on RC so I feel there is room for improvement in those two sections. As far as RC goes I would be fine with maintaining a -4.

Quick question on LORs from employers. I have been out of undergrad for about 1.5-2 years. Do you think this is enough time to warrant a LOR from an employer? Everywhere I look it emphasizes academic LORs and employer LORs when out for 3-4+ years. I'd really like to use my employer LOR because of her strong endorsement but I'd obviously not want to do this if it is going to work against me. Of the roughly 1.5 years since graduating I have spent 6 months of them with the company. My boss was able to get to know me very well throughout this time but I am also afraid adcomms will find this to be an insufficient amount of time to assess my abilities as a future law school candidate.

Thoughts?

Thanks again and I appreciate all the positivity Nova

jmsae wrote:I am currently trying to talk my buddy into retaking the LSAT in December and now I am considering it also. It's nice having someone to work with once in a while. As much as I loved my alone time in the library it would be nice to have someone to discuss the test with once in a while.

I thought I would be content with my score of 163 but now I am thinking about putting in more effort and trying to boost that up a bit. I got a -4 RC -4 LR -6 LG -5 LR on the October test. I barely studied for LG or LR before taking the test and focused on RC so I feel there is room for improvement in those two sections. As far as RC goes I would be fine with maintaining a -4.

Quick question on LORs from employers. I have been out of undergrad for about 1.5-2 years. Do you think this is enough time to warrant a LOR from an employer? Everywhere I look it emphasizes academic LORs and employer LORs when out for 3-4+ years. I'd really like to use my employer LOR because of her strong endorsement but I'd obviously not want to do this if it is going to work against me. Of the roughly 1.5 years since graduating I have spent 6 months of them with the company. My boss was able to get to know me very well throughout this time but I am also afraid adcomms will find this to be an insufficient amount of time to assess my abilities as a future law school candidate.

Thoughts?

Thanks again and I appreciate all the positivity Nova

Congratuation on your improvement. I have a question to you (OP).

When did you take your first LSAT that you got 156? And, after the first LSAT, are you sure that you only studied about 2 weeks before taking the October 2012 LSAT?

I am curious because I am planning to retake LSAT, too.


Thank you,

jmsae wrote:White Male. I remember hearing a Louie skit saying how good it is to be a white man, but that is definitely not the case when applying for law school.

says the 2.92/156

I first took the LSAT in 2010 when I took a prep course as aforementioned. I Reviewed LSAT material for a few weeks in 2011 thinking I would take the LSAT again. Then I studied for a few weeks in 2012. RC was always sunk my score way down and this time I had someone to go over the passages with. I had a buddy who was studying for the MCAT and he would do LSAT RC passages with me because they test for something similar on the MCAT. After each RC section we would go through and discuss why we chose what and our train of thought before correcting the answers. I always did relatively well on LG and LR so I mainly focused on RC. For LR, I would do a few timed sections to identify which question types I was having difficulty with and focused on those. I would do one timed LG about every day/every other day to keep me fresh. I think taking a break from the LSAT and then coming back to it gave me an edge and helped me to see the tricks they used. I remember going through practice sections and going "ohh I remember that trick you sneaky devils..."