Chance the French (The US exists because of us) Forum

[minnbills]

Vive L'Empereur!

[Nova]

I'm from France, I have a 3.8 GPA so far but no LSAT score yet (I know it makes it impossible to concretely chance me). But I'd still like to know if with this GPA and a correct LSAT score (btw 155-165) does it give me an advantage compared to an American with the exact same scores, since English isn't my first language, or does it put me in the same boat as everyone else in term of admissions (to get to schools like Arizona State, U of Florida, Stetson, Texas Austin and U of Houston)

lol @ Stetson

Your softs are not game changing, and you will probably perform at about whatever your numbers suggest. The difference between 155 and 165 is like 30 percentiles.

[bmore]

You have a good sense of humor. Your english is great, for a foreigner. But not for writing in English. Not sure why being a foreigner would give you any knd of boost, but best of luck. And with that GPA, aim higher on the LSAT!

[WhiskeynCoke]

Authentic French battle rifle for sale! Twice dropped never fired!

[JCFindley]

Hallo kapitulieren Affe. Sie wäre in der Lage, dies zu verstehen, wenn nicht für die USA.

DAS! Sehr Richtig! Und das ist zweimal BTW!

[sunynp]

So there is pretty much no chance that OP will return.

[Real Madrid]

Hi,

I'm currently finishing a global studies (political science and international relations) B.A at UCSB and since I want to go to law school I'd like to know if anyone has information about international students acceptance rates.
I'm from France, I have a 3.8 GPA so far but no LSAT score yet (I know it makes it impossible to concretely chance me). But I'd still like to know if with this GPA and a correct LSAT score (btw 155-165) does it give me an advantage compared to an American with the exact same scores, since English isn't my first language, or does it put me in the same boat as everyone else in term of admissions (to get to schools like Arizona State, U of Florida, Stetson, Texas Austin and U of Houston)

Hope this is readable, thanks in advance

No one cares about your being an international student. Law school admissions is a numbers game. You don't get a boost because you are doing your college work in another language. It might help you with OCI later, but that is a long way away.

You need to learn a lot about law school admissions. With a 3.8 GPA you should aim higher than the schools you listed. Also, they are from all different states, so where do you want to live and practice? What kind of law are you interested in practicing?

You will be better off sticking with large markets because you don't have any ties (personal connections to locations) unless you are married to an American or have some American family. People outside of large markets may assume that you will return toFrance (which, you probably will). This will make them less likely to hire you.

Those are just a few of the basic facts you need to learn. First, concentrate on the LSAT and do really well. The range you put of 155-165 is huge, even though it is only 10 points, it will make a difference in where you will be accepted. There are study guides here and people will answer questions if you ask.

After you get a score you can narrow down where to apply. If you don't do well on the LSAT the first time, I would retake, your GPA can get you into almost any school so it comes down to getting as high a score as possible on the LSAT. I think your English is probably good enough to do well on the reading sections, but those will be difficult for you as a non-native speaker.

Thanks for your insightful answer, believe me I know that it is impossible to know which law school I can go to without any LSAT score. I think that ties count but I plan to stay in the states and eventually raise a family there too. I've done very extensive research on which cities offer the best quality of life with great opportunities for young professionals and Houston, Dallas, Austin, Orlando and Miami are potentially very good. Of course we can have long debates about these but that's not the point. I still believe that graduating within the UC system is a good accomplishment for a non native speaker, therefore I hope that this and the fact that i'm bilingual and also fluent in Spanish will put me ahead in term of admissions and later potential job searches within law firms.
I understand the extreme frustration that people have in here, when they realize that they only speak one language..

Lol. I speak two languages and still find you to be insufferable. Also, I highly doubt you're fluent in Spanish and I bet your spoken English is a joke - the French are well known to be shitty at speaking other languages due to their uber thick and feminine accents.

[sunynp]

Hi,

I'm currently finishing a global studies (political science and international relations) B.A at UCSB and since I want to go to law school I'd like to know if anyone has information about international students acceptance rates.
I'm from France, I have a 3.8 GPA so far but no LSAT score yet (I know it makes it impossible to concretely chance me). But I'd still like to know if with this GPA and a correct LSAT score (btw 155-165) does it give me an advantage compared to an American with the exact same scores, since English isn't my first language, or does it put me in the same boat as everyone else in term of admissions (to get to schools like Arizona State, U of Florida, Stetson, Texas Austin and U of Houston)

Hope this is readable, thanks in advance

No one cares about your being an international student. Law school admissions is a numbers game. You don't get a boost because you are doing your college work in another language. It might help you with OCI later, but that is a long way away.

You need to learn a lot about law school admissions. With a 3.8 GPA you should aim higher than the schools you listed. Also, they are from all different states, so where do you want to live and practice? What kind of law are you interested in practicing?

You will be better off sticking with large markets because you don't have any ties (personal connections to locations) unless you are married to an American or have some American family. People outside of large markets may assume that you will return toFrance (which, you probably will). This will make them less likely to hire you.

Those are just a few of the basic facts you need to learn. First, concentrate on the LSAT and do really well. The range you put of 155-165 is huge, even though it is only 10 points, it will make a difference in where you will be accepted. There are study guides here and people will answer questions if you ask.

After you get a score you can narrow down where to apply. If you don't do well on the LSAT the first time, I would retake, your GPA can get you into almost any school so it comes down to getting as high a score as possible on the LSAT. I think your English is probably good enough to do well on the reading sections, but those will be difficult for you as a non-native speaker.

Thanks for your insightful answer, believe me I know that it is impossible to know which law school I can go to without any LSAT score. I think that ties count but I plan to stay in the states and eventually raise a family there too. I've done very extensive research on which cities offer the best quality of life with great opportunities for young professionals and Houston, Dallas, Austin, Orlando and Miami are potentially very good. Of course we can have long debates about these but that's not the point. I still believe that graduating within the UC system is a good accomplishment for a non native speaker, therefore I hope that this and the fact that i'm bilingual and also fluent in Spanish will put me ahead in term of admissions and later potential job searches within law firms.
I understand the extreme frustration that people have in here, when they realize that they only speak one language..

Lol. I speak two languages and still find you to be insufferable. Also, I highly doubt you're fluent in Spanish and I bet your spoken English is a joke - the French are well known to be shitty at speaking other languages due to their uber thick and feminine accents.

I'm sure many of the people here have studied abroad and could have done degrees in other languages if we wanted to do so. I'm not saying it isn't an accomplishment, I'm saying that it doesn't make you a wildly special and unique candidate.

OP: I tried to help you. I'm not sure why you asked for advice because you seem sure that being French and speaking another language is going to help you with admissions. It won't. Your LSAT matters. If you do well, you can get into much better schools than those you listed. I have no idea what market research makes you think that Miami or Orlando are booming cities for young lawyers.

Also, I will try to caution you. Law school is very different than undergrad. You can't assume (though you probably will, seeing as you are a special snowflake) that you will do well. You need to carefully decide what school you want and how much to pay for it. Perhaps in addition to being French you are also very rich so it doesn't matter to you.

One more thing, it is harder for international students to get loans. I don't know how that works, but I have read about it being an issue here on the forums.

But you think you know what you want, so do it.

[dingbat]

Also, I will try to caution you. Law school is very different than undergrad. You can't assume (though you probably will, seeing as you are a special snowflake) that you will do well. You need to carefully decide what school you want and how much to pay for it. Perhaps in addition to being French you are also very rich so it doesn't matter to you.

Not to mention that the law school exam is all about reading and writing, so if you're not fluent in English, you're already at a severe disadvantage

[JCFindley]

Thanks for your insightful answer, believe me I know that it is impossible to know which law school I can go to without any LSAT score. I think that ties count but I plan to stay in the states and eventually raise a family there too. I've done very extensive research on which cities offer the best quality of life with great opportunities for young professionals and Houston, Dallas, Austin, Orlando and Miami are potentially very good. Of course we can have long debates about these but that's not the point. I still believe that graduating within the UC system is a good accomplishment for a non native speaker, therefore I hope that this and the fact that i'm bilingual and also fluent in Spanish will put me ahead in term of admissions and later potential job searches within law firms.
I understand the extreme frustration that people have in here, when they realize that they only speak one language..

Lol. I speak two languages and still find you to be insufferable. Also, I highly doubt you're fluent in Spanish and I bet your spoken English is a joke - the French are well known to be shitty at speaking other languages due to their uber thick and feminine accents.

Actually, I can speak fairly well in German. But you seem to forget the reason YOU are not speaking German.

[jobegood]

Good thing to know about the loans. What about partial scholarship given on merits criteria? Are you illegible for those as an international students?

[sunynp]

Good thing to know about the loans. What about partial scholarship given on merits criteria? Are you illegible for those as an international students?

I don't know. Each school might be different. You should look carefully at their requirements.
For loans, though, you will have to find your own lender or a co-signer. You are not eligible for any US federal loan program.
Here is something about loans from the Columbia website: http://www.law.columbia.edu/current_stu ... d_students

[ams212]

Interesting anecdote: I had a survey class on modern French history lass semester. On our test, our essay that counted for 50% of our exam asked, "what was the most important event in modern French history? why?" One of the guys in my class gave a long drawn out explanation for it being the d-day invasion of Normandy and got an A on the test. Now if a French historian is able to admit that a compelling argument can be made that the most significant event in French history since 1789 was the US saving their asses in WWII, the French better shut up and accept that we are way more awesome!!

[Nova]

What about partial scholarship given on merits criteria? Are you illegible for those as an international students?

AFAIK, you should be eligible for merit scholarships. Schollys range from almost nothing to full tuition + stipend. Many have class rank/minimum GPA stipulations. Most top schools require only good academic standing. Here's a list of stipulations, http://top-law-schools.com/forums/viewt ... 2&t=189178

[PourMeTea]

Post removed.

[ru2486]

Thanks for your insightful answer, believe me I know that it is impossible to know which law school I can go to without any LSAT score. I think that ties count but I plan to stay in the states and eventually raise a family there too. I've done very extensive research on which cities offer the best quality of life with great opportunities for young professionals and Houston, Dallas, Austin, Orlando and Miami are potentially very good. Of course we can have long debates about these but that's not the point. I still believe that graduating within the UC system is a good accomplishment for a non native speaker, therefore I hope that this and the fact that i'm bilingual and also fluent in Spanish will put me ahead in term of admissions and later potential job searches within law firms.
I understand the extreme frustration that people have in here, when they realize that they only speak one language..

Lol. I speak two languages and still find you to be insufferable. Also, I highly doubt you're fluent in Spanish and I bet your spoken English is a joke - the French are well known to be shitty at speaking other languages due to their uber thick and feminine accents.

Actually, I can speak fairly well in German. But you seem to forget the reason YOU are not speaking German.

+1,000

[jobegood]

Nova,
is there an unofficial ranking of law schools based on the amounts of scholarship given per year ?
For example, I've read that Stetson gives a LOT of scholarship to its incoming first year law students.
That would be simply amazing if you can give any insight on this !

What about partial scholarship given on merits criteria? Are you illegible for those as an international students?

AFAIK, you should be eligible for merit scholarships. Schollys range from almost nothing to full tuition + stipend. Many have class rank/minimum GPA stipulations. Most top schools require only good academic standing. Here's a list of stipulations, http://top-law-schools.com/forums/viewt ... 2&t=189178

[Nova]

Idk of one. Most schools are transparent with that info if you ask. Keep in mind schools often over offer because many scholarship recipients will not attend. Also, tight stipulations can force a many to lose their schollys after 1L or 2L.

MyLSN shows average scholarships for whatever numbers you enter.LSN, under the school's applicants tap, shows who got what from last cycle. Stetson's scholarships tend to kick in at 157. Looks like a 165 would get you 100k, assuming you make the grades to renew.

[LOLyer]

Law is competitive, ergo, the French need not apply. Stick to what you're good at... whatever that is, exactly.

'merica.

[pferaso]

Hi,

I'm currently finishing a global studies (political science and international relations) B.A at UCSB and since I want to go to law school I'd like to know if anyone has information about international students acceptance rates.
I'm from France, I have a 3.8 GPA so far but no LSAT score yet (I know it makes it impossible to concretely chance me). But I'd still like to know if with this GPA and a correct LSAT score (btw 155-165) does it give me an advantage compared to an American with the exact same scores, since English isn't my first language, or does it put me in the same boat as everyone else in term of admissions (to get to schools like Arizona State, U of Florida, Stetson, Texas Austin and U of Houston)

Hope this is readable, thanks in advance

International student here, now accepted to a T-14. You will not have a significant advantage in the admission process just because you are from other country. The LSAT is the most important factor in your application regardless where you come from or what you did before. Of course, other factors may help you, but no more than a few LSAT points. Belive me, I experienced this during my application cycle (20+ schools), no one gave me a significant advantage.

[Ohiobumpkin]

Maybe I missed something, but why are you looking to go to law school in the U.S. Do you plan to work here? Also, you should consider since you come from abroad you won't be able to leverage any ties to non-primary markets in your job search. That could put a damper on your job prospects. Furthermore, if your English isn't REALLY good, I wouldn't think law school would be the best fit, given the dense and complex nature of many cases and statutes.

[jobegood]

Ohiobumpkin. ive been in the US since 5 years now. Im currently a senior at UCSB in political science/global studies. My essays and written work quality is most of the times way above my fellow american classmates. i've been taught "proper written" english which in a way gives me the advantage to not butcher the language.i consider my spoken English to be good, I obviously have an accent but its still nice.
I've always dreamed to be a lawyer and to live in the US, so here I am..
I realize that an employer might consider my situation as unstable and more complicated to deal (in term of immigration paperwork). On the other hand there is a lot of french companies that implemented in America and that would like to be represented by a maternal french speaker. I also have an unused 1 year work permit and another coming up upon graduation (the third one coming after law school graduation too) I don't know if I can add up 3 years like this but at least I will have 3x one year.
Lastly for the LSAT I downloaded some test online and so far on the logic games I'm constantly scoring a 100% so I don't think the language will be an issue whatsoever


best,

Maybe I missed something, but why are you looking to go to law school in the U.S. Do you plan to work here? Also, you should consider since you come from abroad you won't be able to leverage any ties to non-primary markets in your job search. That could put a damper on your job prospects. Furthermore, if your English isn't REALLY good, I wouldn't think law school would be the best fit, given the dense and complex nature of many cases and statutes.

[sunynp]

Ohiobumpkin. ive been in the US since 5 years now. Im currently a senior at UCSB in political science/global studies. My essays and written work quality is most of the times way above my fellow american classmates. i've been taught "proper written" english which in a way gives me the advantage to not butcher the language.i consider my spoken English to be good, I obviously have an accent but its still nice.
I've always dreamed to be a lawyer and to live in the US, so here I am..
I realize that an employer might consider my situation as unstable and more complicated to deal (in term of immigration paperwork). On the other hand there is a lot of french companies that implemented in America and that would like to be represented by a maternal french speaker. I also have an unused 1 year work permit and another coming up upon graduation (the third one coming after law school graduation too) I don't know if I can add up 3 years like this but at least I will have 3x one year.
Lastly for the LSAT I downloaded some test online and so far on the logic games I'm constantly scoring a 100% so I don't think the language will be an issue whatsoever


best,

Maybe I missed something, but why are you looking to go to law school in the U.S. Do you plan to work here? Also, you should consider since you come from abroad you won't be able to leverage any ties to non-primary markets in your job search. That could put a damper on your job prospects. Furthermore, if your English isn't REALLY good, I wouldn't think law school would be the best fit, given the dense and complex nature of many cases and statutes.

Be careful about the work permits. I don't know where you have the first one from, but I don't think they defer just because you are in school. You will definitely have one year from graduation of college.

What French companies are in Texas that you think you might work for? It might actually be easier to be hired out of the headquarters in France and then sent to the US as a worker. Don't know.

Also be careful about assuming that your work will be on the level of other law students. Don't forget that your average college student is not going to law school. You will be facing much more difficult competition in law school along with the mandatory curve. And that competition will for the most part be highly motivated, unlike your typical undergrad. I'm not saying you can't do it, just don't be complacent about the competition you will have with the other students in your class.

One more thing, test yourself on RC. For some people that is the hardest section. Not being a native English speaker might hurt you in that section more than any other.

[jurisx]

I have seen the arm pitt haired women the French "steal".

WW1, WW2, and thanks for dumping Nam on our doorstop.....superawsome.

That being said, duh troll.

[jobegood]

To be honest im just "hoping" to be able to work for any company as soon as I pass the bar exam, I figured there is TONS of french companies in every sector everywhere in the states so it might be potential opportunities for me.
For the work permit I attended a community college for 2 years, got an AA and then transferred at UCSB. I'm now elligible to take an OPT for a year. I will get another OPT upon graduation too.
I def now that the student's caliber in law school (especially the good ones) are very different from the chill/surfer type/stoner average undergrad in SoCal. I don't know at all if I will do great but I will do "allright" for sure.

I will stay active on this forum about my current experience, my studying strategy for the LSAT and of course the results (December 1st)
Right now i'm starting to get into the "LSAT Logic Games Bible" by David Killoran that I downloaded on a peer to peer website. I will slowly but surely dissect the bible, do a few tests until I attend the TESTMASTERS course from beg october till december.

best,

Ohiobumpkin. ive been in the US since 5 years now. Im currently a senior at UCSB in political science/global studies. My essays and written work quality is most of the times way above my fellow american classmates. i've been taught "proper written" english which in a way gives me the advantage to not butcher the language.i consider my spoken English to be good, I obviously have an accent but its still nice.
I've always dreamed to be a lawyer and to live in the US, so here I am..
I realize that an employer might consider my situation as unstable and more complicated to deal (in term of immigration paperwork). On the other hand there is a lot of french companies that implemented in America and that would like to be represented by a maternal french speaker. I also have an unused 1 year work permit and another coming up upon graduation (the third one coming after law school graduation too) I don't know if I can add up 3 years like this but at least I will have 3x one year.
Lastly for the LSAT I downloaded some test online and so far on the logic games I'm constantly scoring a 100% so I don't think the language will be an issue whatsoever


best,

Maybe I missed something, but why are you looking to go to law school in the U.S. Do you plan to work here? Also, you should consider since you come from abroad you won't be able to leverage any ties to non-primary markets in your job search. That could put a damper on your job prospects. Furthermore, if your English isn't REALLY good, I wouldn't think law school would be the best fit, given the dense and complex nature of many cases and statutes.

Be careful about the work permits. I don't know where you have the first one from, but I don't think they defer just because you are in school. You will definitely have one year from graduation of college.

What French companies are in Texas that you think you might work for? It might actually be easier to be hired out of the headquarters in France and then sent to the US as a worker. Don't know.

Also be careful about assuming that your work will be on the level of other law students. Don't forget that your average college student is not going to law school. You will be facing much more difficult competition in law school along with the mandatory curve. And that competition will for the most part be highly motivated, unlike your typical undergrad. I'm not saying you can't do it, just don't be complacent about the competition you will have with the other students in your class.

One more thing, test yourself on RC. For some people that is the hardest section. Not being a native English speaker might hurt you in that section more than any other.