3.8 172 --Where do I have a shot? Forum

[whippersnappery]

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[CanadianWolf]

Harvard, Yale & Stanford are not likely based on your numbers assuming that you are a non-URM. Yale & Stanford look beyond one's numbers so without more info. it's hard to even speculate.

Apply to every law school that is of interest to you. The most difficult are likely to be Harvard, Yale & Stanford--the top 3 ranked law schools. Otherwise, you should be a strong candidate for the remainder of the top 14 law schools, in my opinion.

[dpk711]

You'll get CCN. I would throw in apps to HYS to see what happens.

[dixon02]

I´m in undergrad at a good liberal arts schools, pretty decent softs, 3.8 172. Would I have a chance at HYS? Where should I be looking?

Thanks!

LSN looks like a ding at Yale, WL at Harvard and Stanford. Should be in everywhere else.

[whippersnappery]

Thanks everyone who has posted thus far. I appreciate the input. Quick question: I assume CCN is Columbia, Chicago, NYU, what is WL?

[CanadianWolf]

WL or W/L = waitlist.

[whippersnappery]

How big an indicator are numbers for top-14 schools? They all talk endlessly about being ¨holistic¨ and ¨taking applicants as individuals¨ etc...

[CanadianWolf]

Numbers are almost everything for top 14 law schools. Yale, Stanford & UC-Berkeley, however, are unpredictable as these three top 14 law schools look beyond the numbers once your numbers qualify you for serious consideration.

Look over the graphs at http://www.lawschoolnumbers.com to understand the importance of LSAT scores & GPAs to law school admissions committees.

[potl]

Numbers are almost everything for top 14 law schools. Yale, Stanford & UC-Berkeley, however, are unpredictable as these three top 14 law schools look beyond the numbers once your numbers qualify you for serious consideration.

Look over the graphs at http://www.lawschoolnumbers.com to understand the importance of LSAT scores & GPAs to law school admissions committees.

Eh...two things about that statement. 1) Numbers are "almost everything" for most schools - not just the T14. 2) Numbers seem to be more of a prerequisite at the top schools (I guess I'd say...some, but not all, of the T10) rather than the sole determinants of admission.

The first point is just nitpicky and kind of irrelevant. The second point, however, is where you should take notice. Your numbers are at the level where the adcomm at T14s will actually give your file real consideration, but none of them will take the "we HAVE to have him" attitude. You could possibly overcome this with good softs/WE, but because you're a K-JD (and didn't mention anything spectacular in the OP), I'm kind of doubtful that you will. Your next best alternative would be to write really good "Why here?" essays to maximize your odds. Here are my predictions:

Y: Out
H: WL, but probably out eventually
S: Out unless you have a connection to California; maybe WL (I'm guessing people are going to take issue with this...but whatever. I stand by my belief that you're advantaged by being from California regarding Stanford admission.)
Columbia: In the air between In/Reserve
Chicago: In the air between In/WL
NYU: In
Berkeley: In if you write a good PS and apply early
Penn: In if you write a good/convincing "Why Penn" essay; otherwise WL
Mich: In if you write a good/convincing "Why Michigan" essay; otherwise WL
Virginia: In if you write a good/convincing "Why Virginia" essay; otherwise WL
NU: In the air between In/WL, but I'd guess "In" if you have a good interview
Duke: In if you write a good/convincing "Why Duke" essay; otherwise Priority WL
Cornell: In
Georgetown: In

There's pretty much no reason why you shouldn't write a "Why?" essay for the schools I listed above, and there's also no reason why you shouldn't apply early. So do that. You should have some good options.

[echamberlin8]

Potl, those seem like pretty pessimistic predictions. I think someone with a 3.8/172 will probably get into more schools in the T-14 than they won't. I will agree that HYS are probably out, and possibly one or two of CCN might also waitlist him, but I'd imagine other than that, he has a great shot at the rest of the T-14, assuming his application/essays aren't awful.

Out of curiosity, what makes you think it's so important to write a "Why __?" for every school one applies to? What are the guidelines for deciding when to write one of those. Should you write one for each school you apply to? I've heard that it doesn't matter at HYS really, since they already know why you're applying. But I didn't know that you should do it for almost all of the schools you apply to.

OP, I think you have a solid shot at Chicago, Columbia, and NYU. I'd try to get into one of those. Stanford or Harvard are probable waitlists (Yale I'm guessing will say no), but maybe you can get in off one of those.

[potl]

I guess my statement about "Why?" essays was kind of ambiguous. I meant that you should write them for the schools where you'd benefit from doing so (MVPD). These are the schools that seem to YP more than others. I think UChicago explicitly states that you should NOT write a "Why Chicago?" essay unless you have a very legitimate connection to them, and the same advice can probably be said about H and S (probably 0 influence for Y). If you have a compelling reason to go to one of these schools, then it probably won't hurt to explain it. But if your reason is less than convincing, then you're just adding to the material that adcomms will have to read without adding any real value to your application. There's no reason to write a "Why?" essay for Georgetown. Northwestern and Cornell had sections on their application this past year where they explicitly ask you "Why x?" but I wouldn't spend too much time on them.

Assuming that OP does everything he's supposed to (apply early, write good essays, etc.) and doesn't have any special connection anywhere, I'd probably say he's in at CCN down with the possible exception of UVA because they YP like crazy.

[Pate]

You have a shot everywhere. A near ED certainty at CCNP. The rest are pretty much slam dunk. Congrats.

[nkp007]

With applicants dropping, I'd say you have a shot everywhere.

[CardinalLaw]

Do you think that OP should ED out of hope for a scholly?

[Yukos]

Do you think that OP should ED out of hope for a scholly?

Huh? EDing almost always means NOT getting a scholly. Plus he would be giving up his outside shot at HYS. EDing is a terrible idea for OP.

[jetissent]

Don't ED, you will get money to a t14. I was going to ED to Columbia because I was positive it was my dream school. If I had I probably wouldn't have my current scholarship.

You'll land one of CCN without ED if you don't severely mess up your application. I didn't write Why X essays and I got into Penn (live very close to Philly) Berk, and Duke. Silence from UVA and Mich for several months then a WL from UVA. I immediately sent a short Why Mich and was accepted within a week.

Take away: If you have obvious ties the Why essay might be less important but if your stats are good enough for CCN (and your's are) MVP are going to want to know that you're legitimately considering them before they offer you an acceptance/money.

[CardinalLaw]

that's what I meant, should op NOT Ed in order to try to get a scholarship. My mistake.

[echamberlin8]

I guess my statement about "Why?" essays was kind of ambiguous. I meant that you should write them for the schools where you'd benefit from doing so (MVPD). These are the schools that seem to YP more than others. I think UChicago explicitly states that you should NOT write a "Why Chicago?" essay unless you have a very legitimate connection to them, and the same advice can probably be said about H and S (probably 0 influence for Y). If you have a compelling reason to go to one of these schools, then it probably won't hurt to explain it. But if your reason is less than convincing, then you're just adding to the material that adcomms will have to read without adding any real value to your application. There's no reason to write a "Why?" essay for Georgetown. Northwestern and Cornell had sections on their application this past year where they explicitly ask you "Why x?" but I wouldn't spend too much time on them.

Assuming that OP does everything he's supposed to (apply early, write good essays, etc.) and doesn't have any special connection anywhere, I'd probably say he's in at CCN down with the possible exception of UVA because they YP like crazy.

Interesting information. So you think that for most applicants who have good enough numbers that MVPD are the ones they should write Why X? essays for. I will keep that in mind when I apply this fall.

[dixon02]

I´m in undergrad at a good liberal arts schools, pretty decent softs, 3.8 172. Would I have a chance at HYS? Where should I be looking?

Thanks!

Let's just put it this way: there is nowhere that you shouldn't apply if you have an interest in the school. I think the standard advice for people in your shoes is to definitely apply to the T6, then apply anywhere else in the T14 where, if given substantial money/full ride, you would consider going over a T6 school.

None of know what the next cycle will hold with apps down. Best advice is to make sure you have strong LORs and apply as early as possible. I would guess that you will be reasonably competitive everywhere outside of Yale (but still not an auto-ding there).

[20130312]

Friend of mine got Harvard with these numbers, so it's definitely worth the app.

[McQueen]

Granted, my comment is limited to a few individuals that I know (with scores similar to yours) who did ED to a T10. First, they were accepted. Second, they received a fair amount of scholly $.

[EnchantedJockstrap]

You'll get CCN. I would throw in apps to HYS to see what happens.

This.

[Doorkeeper]

I agree with previous posters. You're a CCN lock, probably at least NYU with money.

You've got a chance at YHS. If your GPA is 3.80, less of a shot at YS because they're more strict with GPA. If you're 3.85+, all three are definitely in play.

[bhan87]

Had very similar numbers. My cycle:

H: Out
CLS: In $
Chicago: Out
NYU: In $
Berkeley: In
UCLA: In $$$

P.S. I didn't exactly have the smartest application strategy as my approach was CCN or I'm not leaving CA.