10-Year Veteran - What Are My Chances? Forum

[USMCMLaw9/11]

Good afternoon Ladies and Gentlemen -

I have been reading several posts over the last year or two and have finally decided to throw my hat in the ring and get your take on my situation.

I have a Bachelors in Criminal Justice from the University of Oklahoma and am currently finishing my Masters in Criminal Justice from Michigan State University. I earned both of these degrees on-line due to the fact that I have been active-duty military for the past eight years. My undergrad GPA is a 3.82 and I have received excellent grades in my graduate studies.

I have been serving in the U.S. Marine Corps for the past eight years and still have a year and a half left on my contract. I have attained the rank of Staff Sergeant and am looking at getting out after 10 years of service in the summer of 2013.

Here comes the ultimate question - What are my chances of getting into Michigan Law?

I am a white male which I know works against me in the admissions process. Furthermore, I earned my Bachelors degree and Masters degree online, an unconventional way to pursue higher education but given my profession I had no other option. I chose the University of Oklahoma and Michigan State University because I thought they carried much more weight than other institutions such as Phoenix, American Military University, Devry, Ashford, Etc. I'm hoping my decision pays off because I certainly paid a pretty penny to earn my degree from these reputable universities. I also took the LSAT last June and scored a 163. This score puts me below the 25th percentile at Michigan. I'm willing to take it again to try to score higher but honestly dont know how much higher of a score I can actually get...

What I have working in my favor are the following: I am a resident of Michigan, I have 10 years of military service (softs), and a graduate degree by the time of admission. I also have a laundry list of military officers and professors to select from that can attest to my character and promise both as a Marine and as a student.

I would love to hear your take on my situation. Is applying to Michigan Law nothing more than a pipe dream? I wont be applying until this Fall but would like to be as proactive as possible about applying to law school.

[johansantana21]

Michigan is a pipe dream, retake.

[Tom Joad]

I bet if you get a 168 you could ED and get in.

[Fate to Fatal]

OP, I think you do have a shot if you apply ED with your 163/3.82, but you'd be looking at a much better chance if you re-took to a 165+. That's only about 3 additional questions you would need to answer correctly, and you have two more shots at the LSAT (June and October). I know re-taking is a hassle (and I can only imagine how much more of a hassle it is while serving), but I really do think it would be worth it.

[03121202698008]

Retake. I'm at Michigan and am a 10 year AF vet with an online criminal justice degre and a Masters. 3.9 GPA and 168 LSAT.

A 163 is a long shot and just too low.

[03121202698008]

OP, I think you do have a shot if you apply ED with your 163/3.82, but you'd be looking at a much better chance if you re-took to a 165+. That's only about 3 additional questions you would need to answer correctly, and you have two more shots at the LSAT (June and October). I know re-taking is a hassle (and I can only imagine how much more of a hassle it is while serving), but I really do think it would be worth it.

It is well known that ED gives no benefit at Michigan. Dean Z has stated as such, a very very small part of a class is ED, and their stats trend higher than that required for admission. Additionally, ED at Michigan means being summer start and not Fall

[Fate to Fatal]

OP, I think you do have a shot if you apply ED with your 163/3.82, but you'd be looking at a much better chance if you re-took to a 165+. That's only about 3 additional questions you would need to answer correctly, and you have two more shots at the LSAT (June and October). I know re-taking is a hassle (and I can only imagine how much more of a hassle it is while serving), but I really do think it would be worth it.

It is well known that ED gives no benefit at Michigan. Dean Z has stated as such, a very very small part of a class is ED, and their stats trend higher than that required for admission. Additionally, ED at Michigan means being summer start and not Fall

Speaking only from my own experience EDing to Mich (and as an ignorant 0L), I do still get the impression that ED helps a tiny bit at the margins (i.e., if you have borderline numbers but they otherwise like your app, ED may give you the needed edge). But, either way, you are probably right about 163 being too low to cut it.

[Tiago Splitter]

OP, I think you do have a shot if you apply ED with your 163/3.82, but you'd be looking at a much better chance if you re-took to a 165+. That's only about 3 additional questions you would need to answer correctly, and you have two more shots at the LSAT (June and October). I know re-taking is a hassle (and I can only imagine how much more of a hassle it is while serving), but I really do think it would be worth it.

It is well known that ED gives no benefit at Michigan. Dean Z has stated as such, a very very small part of a class is ED, and their stats trend higher than that required for admission. Additionally, ED at Michigan means being summer start and not Fall

http://michigan.lawschoolnumbers.com/ap ... =3&type=jd

[03121202698008]

OP, I think you do have a shot if you apply ED with your 163/3.82, but you'd be looking at a much better chance if you re-took to a 165+. That's only about 3 additional questions you would need to answer correctly, and you have two more shots at the LSAT (June and October). I know re-taking is a hassle (and I can only imagine how much more of a hassle it is while serving), but I really do think it would be worth it.

It is well known that ED gives no benefit at Michigan. Dean Z has stated as such, a very very small part of a class is ED, and their stats trend higher than that required for admission. Additionally, ED at Michigan means being summer start and not Fall

http://michigan.lawschoolnumbers.com/ap ... =3&type=jd

Are you agreeing or supporting? For 2010 on LSN, there are like 9 ED applicants accepted and the lowest LSAT is a 165. The highest is a 173 and the median is right around the norm. 2011 looks the same.

[emkay625]

If you could just get to 168 it would make a world of difference.....that 5 points is just about 2 questions more correct per section! You can do that! Be confident.

[Tiago Splitter]

Are you agreeing or supporting? For 2010 on LSN, there are like 9 ED applicants accepted and the lowest LSAT is a 165. The highest is a 173 and the median is right around the norm. 2011 looks the same.

The number of people accepted ED is similar to the number accepted at peer schools, and 10 acceptances is just the number we see on LSN. The LSAT median is the same as the overall class median, but the GPA median is lower. Since you said that the ED numbers trend higher and ED folks represent a tiny portion of the class, I'll go with disagree.

To the OP, 163 is too low but if you really want Michigan bump it up a few points and apply ED. Good luck.

[JamMasterJ]

Maybe with ED and a 165 or so. Nice softs + above median gpa and close to 25%ile LSAT gets you pretty good odds.

[USMCMLaw9/11]

Thanks everybody.

I am trying to be as proactive as possible and this is why...

I'm going to go ahead and re-take and shoot for the 168 mark. I have a good five months before June... This time I'll pay for a class and try to get help. Last time I just bought some books and tried to teach myself while I was on deployment. I wont be deploying between now and June so it should make it a lot easier.

Any suggestions on which one? Princeton? Kaplan? Money is not an issue (I've been saving for the past 8 years. This is my dream).

[AP-375]

I don't have a recommendation for which class to take, but I'm just chiming in with a general "Good Luck."
If you haven't taken a practice course yet, you might likely really see your score improve. A lot of people advocate dedicating as much time as possible to the LSAT, and I would as well. The extra dedication really pays off.

[JamMasterJ]

I think for anyone scoring above 160, self study is the answer. Use a strategy guide like Pithypike's (I think a lot of self-studiers' problem is that they study a lot but not the right way).


If you really want to take a class, Manhattan is great, Velocity seems great, Powerscore is pretty good, and Testmasters can be either really good or bad.

[Tiago Splitter]

I went from 166, with what sounds like similar preparation to you, to 178 after a Testmasters class.

To add to what JMJ said, Blueprint is also pretty strong, and regardless of which class you go with I'd try to find one with an instructor who has done it before.