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I'm an extreme split-ter. I've been lurking on these forums for a while reading posts and taking in commentors advice on others "What are my chances threads?"

I have a 3.0 GPA, and a 173 LSAT. I was wondering what my chances were for an IVY league school admission.

I know I'm out a Yale, and most likely Harvard. Along with Stanford (GPA is killing me).

What would be my chances at:

Columbia
NYU ( I know it's not IVY)
U PENN
Cornell

My softs include: Eagle Scout and tons of community service, and other school clubs.

Any suggestions would also be appreciated

Thanks!

I can also wait out the summer and apply extremely early.

Out at Princeton.

Also, Stanford isn't an Ivy League school.

I know I meant to put ( I know not Ivy) like i did for NYU. Princeton doesn't have a law school, but thanks for the sarcastic help..

lawschoolnumbers.com may help.

Apply to Cornell & Penn. Consider Virginia & Duke.

Penn and Cornell are the only ones you have even a fighting chance at (although obviously you could be the exception to the trend and get into Columbia or whatever). If you could take the LSAT again and boost your score up to something ridiculous like 178 it would really help you.

Cornell doesn't really like splitters, they seem to like more well rounded applicants.

I could start studying now and take the June LSAT. 5 months of hardcore studying should boost me I would think.

UPenn would be my dream school though.

Retaking the LSAT is unlikely to help since you are already above the 75% for non-T-6 law schools & a higher score is unlikely to make a significant impact at H, Y, S, Columbia or Chicago or NYU in light of your 3.0 GPA.

johansantana21 wrote:Cornell doesn't really like splitters, they seem to like more well rounded applicants.

Yeah, but looking at LSN it looks like OP has at least a chance of getting in off the waitlist if they boost their score. Still, it's a slim chance.

Boosting your LSAT is one of the best things you could do. You're still going to have an uphill battle to say the least, but if you apply early decision and boost your LSAT way up you'd have a much better chance than you do right now. Worst case scenario your hopefully great LSAT score could help you get scholarship money at a lower ranked school if you still chose to attend law school.

As for being above the 75th, that's certainly true and in theory would make retaking pointless. However, looking at LSN the splitters with GPAs even close to yours that got into Penn are generally ones with really high LSATs. that doesn't really make sense mathematically, but there does seem to be a slight trend, though of course the sample size is extremely small. It could be that it's correlation and not causation.

bottom line, your chances at Penn are not great, but best of luck. personally I would find it worth at least trying to improve my LSAT, whether it makes sense from a mathematical standpoint or not. If nothing else, it shows a commitment to hard work. However, I appear to be in the minority, so take that for what it's worth. I just feel like there's never a downside to hard work, and if faced with one applicant with a 3.0 and a 173 and another with a 3.0 and a 179, all else being equal, I'd go with the latter, personally.

I'm probably going to regret asking this but, why are you only looking at ivies? As a splitter you really need to cast as wide of a net as possible.

I knew my GPA would come to haunt me. I wish I could take a mulligan on the last four years.

What do you think my realistic chances at UPENN or Cornell are?


I've always wanted to attend an Ivy league school. My high school GPA was a 3.5, and all I cared about at the time was ice hockey ( I played juniors in philly). I didn't really start caring about school until I was a junior in college, and my last 60 credits GPA is a 3.45.

I'm retaking three classes I received D's in, such as financial accounting, Chem 2, and Intro to Art ( don't ask).

Not doing my best in undergrad is one of the biggest regrets in my life right now, it absolutely sucks.

brian71 wrote: I'm retaking three classes I received D's in, such as financial accounting, Chem 2, and Intro to Art ( don't ask).

You do realize that retaking close classes will not affect your LSAC GPA at all, right? I mean, they will affect it in so much as any grade will, but law schools will use both your old grade and your new grade to calculate your GPA for any classes you retake.

Errzii wrote:I'm probably going to regret asking this but, why are you only looking at ivies? As a splitter you really need to cast as wide of a net as possible.

This..

My numbers are similar to yours (3.1/173), only I am graduating with a 4.0. I can tell you the statistical predictions for me at LSP and Hourumd say I have about a 25% shot at Penn, although most people say the predictors aren't as accurate with splitters.

Errzii said it - with a split like ours, you have to cast the net wide and hope for the best. I am also not sure how much the LSAT retake would really do for you. I mean, adding 5 points to your LSAT will never hurt, but I think you've probably reached the point of diminished returns. Unfortunately, I think your GPA will keep you out of the T6, unless you're URM or have some incredible softs, and outside the T6, 173 is above most (if not all) 75th percentile LSAT's. In short, in your case and mine, I think the 173 is going to do about as much for you as an LSAT can do...

Also - have you earned your bachelor's degree yet? If not, you can still improve your LSAC GPA by earning the highest grade possible on the highest # of credits. Go to LSP's GPA calculator and put in all of your grades up to this point, then see how much it would increase with 12 more credits of grade-A coursework.

If you can stomach 12 credits of Community College this summer for a GPA increase of .15 or so, I think that might be a better use of your time than an LSAT retake...

But this is all contingent on whether or not you have earned a bachelor's degree yet. If you have already earned your degree, then nothing you do from here on out will count toward your LSAC GPA.

cogitoergosum wrote:Also - have you earned your bachelor's degree yet? If not, you can still improve your LSAC GPA by earning the highest grade possible on the highest # of credits. Go to LSP's GPA calculator and put in all of your grades up to this point, then see how much it would increase with 12 more credits of grade-A coursework.

If you can stomach 12 credits of Community College this summer for a GPA increase of .15 or so, I think that might be a better use of your time than an LSAT retake...

But this is all contingent on whether or not you have earned a bachelor's degree yet. If you have already earned your degree, then nothing you do from here on out will count toward your LSAC GPA.

Yeah, I would definitely agree that if you have to choose between improving your LSAT and taking a lot more classes (and getting As), improving your GPA is WAY more important.

I have one more semester left of college. I'll take as many credits as I can, and hopefully I get all A's.

I've applied to MHA programs so I have a back up plan, I just always wanted to be a lawyer.

Life comes at you fast.

If you can afford it, consider postponing graduation by a few semesters to work on your GPA.

sach1282 wrote:

brian71 wrote: I'm retaking three classes I received D's in, such as financial accounting, Chem 2, and Intro to Art ( don't ask).

You do realize that retaking close classes will not affect your LSAC GPA at all, right? I mean, they will affect it in so much as any grade will, but law schools will use both your old grade and your new grade to calculate your GPA for any classes you retake.

It depends on your school's policy whether the old grade will count. Some schools, such as the one I am currently attending, remove the retaken course's grade from your transcript entirely put in an "R" instead, so LSAC counts it the same as a "W." So, if that's the case with the OP's school, it would significantly increase his GPA to retake those D's and school's won't care anymore than they do about a couple of W's here and there.

brian71 wrote:I have one more semester left of college. I'll take as many credits as I can, and hopefully I get all A's.

I've applied to MHA programs so I have a back up plan, I just always wanted to be a lawyer.

Life comes at you fast.

I know what you're talking about as far as life coming at you so fast, and I am in a very similar boat (lower 3s GPA, though I bombed my first LSAT [162] despite the fact I was PTing in your range). I am studying to retake the LSAT, and have put off graduation for two semesters. I will hopefully graduate with a 3.5x GPA (though I'd apply in the fall with a 3.4x GPA), and if I retake and got even what I was shooting for last time (170+), I will be in a much better position. If it as at all possible, do what I am doing.

What are your thoughts on Northwestern? From my limited 0L view on law school from TLS, I hear T14 all the time and Ivy hardly ever. I'd shoot NU an app along with all your Ivies because NU is pretty splitter-friendly.

goldenflash19 wrote:What are your thoughts on Northwestern? From my limited 0L view on law school from TLS, I hear T14 all the time and Ivy hardly ever. I'd shoot NU an app along with all your Ivies because NU is pretty splitter-friendly.

~95% of NU students have at least a year of work experience. OP, have you considered taking a year or two off post-UG?

Sauce: http://www.law.northwestern.edu/admissions/profile/

I could work for a year, and then apply. Would applying ED at UPENN or Cornell help at all? I wish I was aladain and had a magic genie to grant me three wishes so I could go back and redo my undergrad and try really hard (a.k.a don't go out).

I'm also a former foster child, and only 2% of former foster children graduate college. I don't know if that's a good soft or not.

brian71 wrote:I'm also a former foster child, and only 2% of former foster children graduate college. I don't know if that's a good soft or not.

Interesting. Do you have a compelling diversity story? Preferably something that ties into your current GPA? An upward trend?

Unless you were PTing at 176-179 and went to the administration drunk, I'd suggest against tampering with the score. Work the GPA.

brian71 wrote:I'm an extreme split-ter. I've been lurking on these forums for a while reading posts and taking in commentors advice on others "What are my chances threads?"

I have a 3.0 GPA, and a 173 LSAT. I was wondering what my chances were for an IVY league school admission.

I know I'm out a Yale, and most likely Harvard. Along with Stanford (GPA is killing me).

What would be my chances at:

Columbia
NYU ( I know it's not IVY)
U PENN
Cornell

My softs include: Eagle Scout and tons of community service, and other school clubs.

Any suggestions would also be appreciated

Thanks!

I can also wait out the summer and apply extremely early.

Probably out at all of them, unless you are a URM. The highest ranked school you can most likely get into is Georgetown, and that is not a sure thing.