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No real softs in terms of WE. I'm a first generation immigrant, but not URM. Science major at a good UG. Upward GPA trend, basically from a 3.0 to a 3.5. Two 169s on the LSAT prior to the 176, but I think the large majority of schools will take the higher score, right?

Where should I not bother to apply? Where can I get money? What am I looking at, realistically?

Georgetown and Cornell were my reach schools, but I overperformed my expectations a bit on the LSAT. Am I safe at those two now? Do I have a real shot at somewhere better?

You have a definite shot at MVP on down, and I think with ED you have a shot at snagging NYU. Are you applying this cycle or next - because that will change your odds.

first gen immigrant is a great soft, I imagine you have a great shot at anything except HYS. You might pay sticker for CCN, but you will get in and get $$$ anywhere you go.

hdsoc wrote:You have a definite shot at MVP on down, and I think with ED you have a shot at snagging NYU. Are you applying this cycle or next - because that will change your odds.

This cycle. I so wish I had this score in October, but there's nothing I can do about it now. I guess that brings up the question of whether it is worth it to wait a year.

I'd love to get into NYU (and I'd be willing to pay sticker, same for Columbia), but MVP would make me happy.

what does MVP stand for?

Michigan, Virginia, Penn...

Also, Most Valuable Player

dhrizek wrote:No real softs in terms of WE. I'm a first generation immigrant, but not URM. Science major at a good UG. Upward GPA trend, basically from a 3.0 to a 3.5. Two 169s on the LSAT prior to the 176, but I think the large majority of schools will take the higher score, right?

Where should I not bother to apply? Where can I get money? What am I looking at, realistically?

Georgetown and Cornell were my reach schools, but I overperformed my expectations a bit on the LSAT. Am I safe at those two now? Do I have a real shot at somewhere better?

You can milk your immigrant status in a way that almost makes the committee see you as a URM. Find and highlight those factors related to your immigrant status that contributed to your personal development. Were you poor? Did you deal with classism in your homeland? Was there ethnic strife between certain factions there? Was your government oppressive? What were your community activities like there? How did your experiences contribute to your desire to pursue law (and specifically in the U.S.)? Are you planning to use your American legal education in your homeland? All of these questions are relevant!

Although you may not be an American URM, being disadvantaged in your homeland would seem to contribute to your development in a way that would allow you to relate to URM's at your law school. Those experiences would also give you a unique yet valuable perspective that would contribute to the learning experiences of your peers and professors.

I come from a sales background; one thing I learned early was that I needed to be excited about what I was selling if I wanted my customers and clients to get excited. It works the same way in law admissions: others will only believe in the value of your experiences if you do. By minimizing your immigrant status and the value it has brought to your personal development, you are depriving yourself of an opportunity to shine for others in the law community, while depriving others of valuable learning opportunities they would reap for having known you.

dhrizek wrote:I guess that brings up the question of whether it is worth it to wait a year.

I'd love to get into NYU (and I'd be willing to pay sticker, same for Columbia), but MVP would make me happy.

If you don't get into any of the above I would suggest waiting a year because with those numbers you definitely have a reasonable chance at any of those if you apply early in the cycle and ED. It's likely you'll be paying sticker for any T14 anyway (due to splitter status and applying this late), might as well aim as high as possible.

I'm filling out the app to NW right now and I've missed alumni interviews, so I would need to fly out there to do an on campus interview (around $250 round trip, but could be fun to visit Chicago anyway). I also have literally no post-grad WE. Is NW worth the trouble or will my lack of WE kill it for me? I have a fee waiver, and I could do a skype interview/not interview, but I'm curious if that would hurt my chances, and whether my chances are otherwise good enough to make it worthwhile to fly out there and interview in person?

@PDaddy/Errzii: Thanks for the responses.

By minimizing your immigrant status and the value it has brought to your personal development, you are depriving yourself of an opportunity to shine for others in the law community,

I discuss my past in both my PS and DS, but I wasn't sure whether that actually was considered much of a soft.

ETA: errzii, I just watched that episode two days ago.

I had your GPA and 4 points lower than you on the LSAT, but grad school, good ECs and some WE. I'm an Ordinary White Guy.

Cornell at (basically) sticker was the only T14 I got, though I didn't apply to Mich or NU (I definitely should have; so should you). I was dinged at UVa and Penn.

I was also dinged at GULC and Vandy; I didn't apply to UT/UCLA (probably should've applied to UT). Ultimately went ND at 75% scholarship... thought this was very lucky (actually, I still think I was lucky), though I got a similar deal from Emory.

I would expect you'll do the same or better than my anecdote.

dhrizek wrote:I'm filling out the app to NW right now and I've missed alumni interviews, so I would need to fly out there to do an on campus interview (around $250 round trip, but could be fun to visit Chicago anyway). I also have literally no post-grad WE. Is NW worth the trouble or will my lack of WE kill it for me? I have a fee waiver, and I could do a skype interview/not interview, but I'm curious if that would hurt my chances, and whether my chances are otherwise good enough to make it worthwhile to fly out there and interview in person?

@PDaddy/Errzii: Thanks for the responses.

By minimizing your immigrant status and the value it has brought to your personal development, you are depriving yourself of an opportunity to shine for others in the law community,

I discuss my past in both my PS and DS, but I wasn't sure whether that actually was considered much of a soft.

According to Northwestern's website only 5% of their 2011 incoming class had no WE. http://www.law.northwestern.edu/admissions/profile/ So yeah, NU seems like a long shot if not impossible without substantial WE.

ETA: errzii, I just watched that episode two days ago.

If you haven't already, you should catch up to the most recent season, it's really good stuff.

dhrizek wrote:

hdsoc wrote:You have a definite shot at MVP on down, and I think with ED you have a shot at snagging NYU. Are you applying this cycle or next - because that will change your odds.

This cycle. I so wish I had this score in October, but there's nothing I can do about it now. I guess that brings up the question of whether it is worth it to wait a year.

I'd love to get into NYU (and I'd be willing to pay sticker, same for Columbia), but MVP would make me happy.

I'd apply this year and see where the chips fall. If you don't get CCN or MVP, I'd definitely re-apply. I don't think CCN are as much of a sure bet as the poster above, and if you do end up re-applying, you might want to ED to your favorite since as a splitter you're unlikely to get much money from the T-14.

I had a 173, 3.3ish, and I did get some $$ from Michigan, but I doubt anywhere else other than maybe Georgetown would've offered me any.

Georgetown refused to give me a fee waiver which makes me feel uneasy

dhrizek wrote:Georgetown refused to give me a fee waiver which makes me feel uneasy

Michigan refused to give me a fee waiver and then let me in with a 10k scholly. Take your shot.

UnamSanctam wrote:Michigan refused to give me a fee waiver

ditto

This is going to get really expensive.

If you apply early next cycle, I would say your choice of MVP ED would be the correct answer, maybe NYU. Though that gpa seems a bit too low, unless you get deferred and accepted RD/ off the waitlist.

I would just apply from Columbia on down if you don't want to ED

176, 2.9 applicant here... accepted to and likely attending Northwestern next year.

Without work experience, Northwestern isn't probable for you. Your best play, at this point, is applying ED to UVA. But I would take the shotgun approach to every school ranked in the top twenty, minus HYS (maybe skip Chicago as well). This is expensive but the app cycle is very unpredictable (I was rejected at Minnesota, but accepted to NU, WUSTL and merely deferred to RD from Cornell... go figure) so you have a much greater incentive to apply far and wide than most applicants.

Email everyone and ask for fee waivers based on your 176. I got waived at Columbia, NU, UVA, Wustl, W&M, Boulder, all the t2s I asked. UCalifornia schools do not give merit waivers so you can skip those requests.

With applications down, a 176 might be gold this year, as top schools try to maintain their medians, 75% stats. Hard to tell. Like me, you are a statistical push at every school you are applying to (>75th LSAT but <25th GPA) so if someone really likes your PS and you've got great recs, you could get into Columbia. Or you could miss the t-14 entirely. However neither of these outcomes is very likely.

I'm coming to realize that splitters are not likely to receive massive $$$... University of Denver gave me a nice scholly but not as nice as the ones they're offering to, say, 164, 3.6 kids. So it's looking like I'm going to go into massive debt and choose NU, or maybe UVA, Berkeley, Michigan if any of them bite.

Keep this in mind: If you wait til next cycle, and apply ED to UVA in September, you've got a markedly better than 50% chance of getting in. So don't accept some bullshit if things don't go your way this cycle. Good luck.

Thanks a lot for all of that. I've got a nice set of fee waivers and I'm going to give it my best go. Either way, I feel good about my chances for next year if things don't work out.