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Mr. Pancakes wrote:I know my credentials are low but I would like some advice on what would be the best school that would possibly accept me. I will not be taking the LSAT again. My father has his own law firm so getting a job after law school would not be a problem, but I don't want to have to take the bar more than once. I have talked to my father extensively about where I should apply and we both know that I won't have a long list of schools to choose from. I wish I could have done better on my gpa/lsat but it's over now and I am ready to start sending out apps fairly soon. I don't want to wait another year to start school so please no advice saying to retake the test. What are the BEST schools I should apply to right now with my credentials?

where is your father's practice?

Go to the best school in the area for the cheapest price you can. Why don't you take the test again?

Technically I can take the test again. I have been working as high school football coach and teacher for the past few years and realized my heart is really in law. I am 27 years old and my father is starting to reach the age of retirement. I would like to be able to get out of law school in time to work with him before he completely steps down. The practice is in Kansas, I have rec letters from alumni/donors to washburn, and my poli sci prof. Five members of my family graduated from Washburn in Topeka and they all do very well and loved their time there. I am nervous about Washburn because my sister had similar numbers and was denied. I am willing to travel anywhere if I cannot get accepted to Washburn. So the main reason why I don't want to take the test again is because I will be 31 when I get done with school and my time to enjoy working with my old man is becoming more limited each year. I don't know how this sounds but I am 99% set on starting in the fall if possilbe.

Plus your numbers into the official LSAC guide.

What kind of softs do you have?

If you have a job guaranteed for yourself after law school, just go to the cheapest option you have. Might make sense to apply broadly right now and then retake in February to enhance your chances if you are able to land on any waitlists (and you can use the increase in LSAT score to try and leverage money out of any schools you can get into). Your numbers are low enough that you may have trouble landing on waitlists for most schools though.

willwash wrote:Plus your numbers into the official LSAC guide.

What kind of softs do you have?

I'm not sure what you mean by "softs". First time on this site. Do you mean non lsat/gpa factors? If so I had an internship with a senator during college, a letter of rec from a poli sci prof, a great letter from a successful attorney in Kansas who and I'm working on a couple other letters. I think that I could get in at Oklahoma City but beside that I really don't know what other schools I should look at. I could take it in feb but I don't have time to take a full time course since I am working full-time. I did take a weekend course through testmasters and it really only bumped my score a couple points, but what should I expect in one weekend. I guess I am curious which bottom shelf schools that are worth applying to but would still accept me.

Richie Tenenbaum wrote:If you have a job guaranteed for yourself after law school, just go to the cheapest option you have. Might make sense to apply broadly right now and then retake in February to enhance your chances if you are able to land on any waitlists (and you can use the increase in LSAT score to try and leverage money out of any schools you can get into). Your numbers are low enough that you may have trouble landing on waitlists for most schools though.

What schools would you reccommend that I start with? I am thinking about Washburn, Oklahoma City, Charlotte, Charleston, Florida Coastal, St. Thomas (FL), Tulsa, Barry, Mississippi College. Are there any schools that you would think I should add or remove from this list?

Mr. Pancakes wrote:

Richie Tenenbaum wrote:If you have a job guaranteed for yourself after law school, just go to the cheapest option you have. Might make sense to apply broadly right now and then retake in February to enhance your chances if you are able to land on any waitlists (and you can use the increase in LSAT score to try and leverage money out of any schools you can get into). Your numbers are low enough that you may have trouble landing on waitlists for most schools though.

What schools would you reccommend that I start with? I am thinking about Washburn, Oklahoma City, Charlotte, Charleston, Florida Coastal, St. Thomas (FL), Tulsa, Barry, Mississippi College. Are there any schools that you would think I should add or remove from this list?

I really have no clue. You're in an uncommon situation, since you have a job lined up already. If you weren't in that position, none of the schools you listed would be very good options since they have horrible placement. That doesn't effect you though. I would go to lawschoolnumbers.com, lawschoolpredictor.com, and hourumd.com to figure out where you can get accepted and if there is any chance of money somewhere.

Working fulltime is really no excuse for not having time to prep for the LSAT (unless you are doing like 80 hour weeks). Increase your score could save you thousands of dollars (AKA, hours spent study for the LSAT could translate into more dollars per hour than you're actually making right now). There's really no excuse for not studying as hard as possible for a retake in Feb., even if you are wanting to be in school next August. Apply now and plan on retaking in Feb. Check the previously mentioned sites to help you with where you should be applying.

Brother, I know you don't want to hear this, but retake, man! Crank out ten more points so you can go somewhere for free! It's great you have guaranteed employment, but imagine guaranteed employment and no debt. Follow the study guides on here and put in the time. Another couple hundred bucks and a few hours for prep materials FAR outweigh $150K in debt. Just something to consider, man.

I will check those sites out. Hopefully I will be able to get in to a back up school in case my score doesn't increase too much. I wish I could spend time to take an on site course but those aren't available in my area. I hired a tutor off of craigslist and that guy knew less than I did. I only currently get paid less than 40k a year so after bills there isn't a lot of money left to go around. I guess I will have to do it the old fashioned way. Last time around I ordered the powerscore bibles and 10 practice tests. I did pretty well on all of the sections but was murdered in the logic games sections. I have heard that the logic games is the easiest to improve, but I just couldn't quite get it through studying on my own.

BiglawOrBust wrote:Brother, I know you don't want to hear this, but retake, man! Crank out ten more points so you can go somewhere for free! It's great you have guaranteed employment, but imagine guaranteed employment and no debt. Follow the study guides on here and put in the time. Another couple hundred bucks and a few hours for prep materials FAR outweigh $150K in debt. Just something to consider, man.

This. Bro you will be making it rain if you have a job lined up and go to school for free. Not even gonna mention you could get one of those fancy restaurant pancake makers and not give a shit about the cost of it. Pancakes in the morning. Making it rain at night. Rinse. Repeat.

Mr. Pancakes wrote:I will check those sites out. Hopefully I will be able to get in to a back up school in case my score doesn't increase too much. I wish I could spend time to take an on site course but those aren't available in my area. I hired a tutor off of craigslist and that guy knew less than I did. I only currently get paid less than 40k a year so after bills there isn't a lot of money left to go around. I guess I will have to do it the old fashioned way. Last time around I ordered the powerscore bibles and 10 practice tests. I did pretty well on all of the sections but was murdered in the logic games sections. I have heard that the logic games is the easiest to improve, but I just couldn't quite get it through studying on my own.

LG is indeed the easiest section to improve on. I was horrible at games at first (<50%). I'm pretty bad at spatial reasoning. But the great thing about LG is that enough repetition can make most anyone great at games. I got to the point where I was consistently getting between 0 and -2 questions wrong per games section. (It definitely took a lot of practice and repetition to get to that point though.)

Here is a good guide:
http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... =6&t=41657

If you don't follow that, at least follow the idea of making multiple copies of as many games sections as possible. Then just practice, practice, practice. First, make sure you have a good system in place by going back over the LG bible. Maybe take a few games, taking as long as possible to make sure you get all the inferences and you know how the game works backwards and forwards. Then just start doing as many games as possible, and try to go as fast as possible. You don't need to do full sections. Have a spare 10-15 minutes? Sit down and do a game. Rinse and repeat as much as possible. I went from loathing games to actually thinking they're fun. Hell, I would do a game or two randomly after I took the LSAT for the last time, just because it got to be like doing a crossword puzzle or playing Sudoku.

Work on LR and RC as well, but trying to improve as much as possible in LG should result in a decent point increase.

Richie Tenenbaum wrote:

Mr. Pancakes wrote:I will check those sites out. Hopefully I will be able to get in to a back up school in case my score doesn't increase too much. I wish I could spend time to take an on site course but those aren't available in my area. I hired a tutor off of craigslist and that guy knew less than I did. I only currently get paid less than 40k a year so after bills there isn't a lot of money left to go around. I guess I will have to do it the old fashioned way. Last time around I ordered the powerscore bibles and 10 practice tests. I did pretty well on all of the sections but was murdered in the logic games sections. I have heard that the logic games is the easiest to improve, but I just couldn't quite get it through studying on my own.

LG is indeed the easiest section to improve on. I was horrible at games at first (<50%). I'm pretty bad at spatial reasoning. But the great thing about LG is that enough repetition can make most anyone great at games. I got to the point where I was consistently getting between 0 and -2 questions wrong per games section. (It definitely took a lot of practice and repetition to get to that point though.)

Here is a good guide:
http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... =6&t=41657

If you don't follow that, at least follow the idea of making multiple copies of as many games sections as possible. Then just practice, practice, practice. First, make sure you have a good system in place by going back over the LG bible. Maybe take a few games, taking as long as possible to make sure you get all the inferences and you know how the game works backwards and forwards. Then just start doing as many games as possible, and try to go as fast as possible. You don't need to do full sections. Have a spare 10-15 minutes? Sit down and do a game. Rinse and repeat as much as possible. I went from loathing games to actually thinking they're fun. Hell, I would do a game or two randomly after I took the LSAT for the last time, just because it got to be like doing a crossword puzzle or playing Sudoku.

Work on LR and RC as well, but trying to improve as much as possible in LG should result in a decent point increase.

Ok, I think i will give it a go. Thanks for the suggestion.

bruss wrote:

BiglawOrBust wrote:Brother, I know you don't want to hear this, but retake, man! Crank out ten more points so you can go somewhere for free! It's great you have guaranteed employment, but imagine guaranteed employment and no debt. Follow the study guides on here and put in the time. Another couple hundred bucks and a few hours for prep materials FAR outweigh $150K in debt. Just something to consider, man.

This. Bro you will be making it rain if you have a job lined up and go to school for free. Not even gonna mention you could get one of those fancy restaurant pancake makers and not give a shit about the cost of it. Pancakes in the morning. Making it rain at night. Rinse. Repeat.

Pancakes in the morning, making it rain at night.....someone just found his new fbook status.

Mr. Pancakes wrote:

Richie Tenenbaum wrote:If you have a job guaranteed for yourself after law school, just go to the cheapest option you have. Might make sense to apply broadly right now and then retake in February to enhance your chances if you are able to land on any waitlists (and you can use the increase in LSAT score to try and leverage money out of any schools you can get into). Your numbers are low enough that you may have trouble landing on waitlists for most schools though.

What schools would you reccommend that I start with? I am thinking about Washburn, Oklahoma City, Charlotte, Charleston, Florida Coastal, St. Thomas (FL), Tulsa, Barry, Mississippi College. Are there any schools that you would think I should add or remove from this list?

FTFY.

Kansas doesn't have reciprocity, so if it's at all possible go to a school in KS, so you don't have to worry about prepping with a different state from where you went to school. If not, at least try to stick close. Check out STCL, Thurgood Marshall School of Law and maybe TexWes? PLEASE NOTE. These are all last resorts. Retake ITCR.

swilson215 wrote:

Mr. Pancakes wrote:

Richie Tenenbaum wrote:If you have a job guaranteed for yourself after law school, just go to the cheapest option you have. Might make sense to apply broadly right now and then retake in February to enhance your chances if you are able to land on any waitlists (and you can use the increase in LSAT score to try and leverage money out of any schools you can get into). Your numbers are low enough that you may have trouble landing on waitlists for most schools though.

What schools would you reccommend that I start with? I am thinking about Washburn, Oklahoma City, Charlotte, Charleston, Florida Coastal, St. Thomas (FL), Tulsa, Barry, Mississippi College. Are there any schools that you would think I should add or remove from this list?

FTFY.

Kansas doesn't have reciprocity, so if it's at all possible go to a school in KS, so you don't have to worry about prepping with a different state from where you went to school. If not, at least try to stick close. Check out STCL, Thurgood Marshall School of Law and maybe TexWes? PLEASE NOTE. These are all last resorts. Retake ITCR.

Fixed it again.

Get a minimum of a 160. Anyone who puts in time studying can get that score.

I just got in Washburn for Spring 2012 with a 3.0/154 so you may have a chance. Good luck.