LSN and Duke Confusion Forum

[fakehunter]

Hey guys,

I just checked LSN after reading about it here (3.65/169, non-URM) and it gave me a DENY for the top 4, a weak consider for 5-6, and then a regular consider from everything from Penn to Vanderbilt, except for Duke, for which I got a flat DENY. Can someone alert me what I'm missing about Duke? I really like the school and Law School Predictor gave me a 60ish percent chance on getting in.

[bdubs]

It's right, you're a deny at Duke. It's wrong about a lot of the T5-T14, you're not a "consider" at most of them. Michigan and Cornell are probably the only schools you have a shot at in the T14.

[fakehunter]

Oh. Thanks. Out of curiosity, do you think it matters to any school that I go to a top 15 university?

[Kring345]

Nope, not really.

[bdubs]

Oh. Thanks. Out of curiosity, do you think it matters to any school that I go to a top 15 university?

Small boost. You'd probably have a slight edge over someone with the same LSAT and similar (below median) GPA. However, if your competition has better softs, PS, or recommendations those could all outweigh any benefit of your undergrad's prestige.

[fakehunter]

Oh. Thanks. Out of curiosity, do you think it matters to any school that I go to a top 15 university?

Small boost. You'd probably have a slight edge over someone with the same LSAT and similar (below median) GPA. However, if your competition has better softs, PS, or recommendations those could all outweigh any benefit of your undergrad's prestige.

Thanks. I didn't mean at Duke specifically, just in general.

[bdubs]

Oh. Thanks. Out of curiosity, do you think it matters to any school that I go to a top 15 university?

Small boost. You'd probably have a slight edge over someone with the same LSAT and similar (below median) GPA. However, if your competition has better softs, PS, or recommendations those could all outweigh any benefit of your undergrad's prestige.

Thanks. I didn't mean at Duke specifically, just in general.

I was speaking in general terms. All schools look at your undergrad, but few seem to use it as any more than a tie-breaker when all else is equal.

You're below median GPA for all T14 schools, if that was what you were thinking of.

[sach1282]

OP: I would still apply to Duke (as well as a lot of other mid range T-14s). My LSAT is slightly higher than yours (1-2 points) but I have a previous score that puts me almost exactly at your GPA/LSAT and I was already admitted to Duke and Georgetown. Unless you're absolutely strapped for cash and terrified of a rejection letter, apply.

[instantwonton]

I think it's definitely worth applying... You never know who the adcom will just like and decide to admit even though your numbers are below median. I think you definitely still have a chance at quite a few of the top 14

[euskadi]

OP: I would still apply to Duke (as well as a lot of other mid range T-14s). My LSAT is slightly higher than yours (1-2 points) but I have a previous score that puts me almost exactly at your GPA/LSAT and I was already admitted to Duke and Georgetown. Unless you're absolutely strapped for cash and terrified of a rejection letter, apply.

Whilst I do agree that (s)he ought to apply to D, it's widely accepted that schools look solely at your top LSAT score. Sure, YHSC(C)N may say otherwise, but substantive admissions data seem to suggest otherwise (and a bit of anecdotal evidence, admittedly).

[fakehunter]

Thanks for the advice, guys. I did apply to Duke (as well as to NYU and Columbia, but I'm quite aware they are pipe dreams). Here's for the hoping! And I am a she for those wondering I wonder if that will help at all at Duke, as I'm under the impression as their numbers last year were like 57/43 m/f. Anyone know if that was just an anomaly or a pattern?

[sach1282]

Thanks for the advice, guys. I did apply to Duke (as well as to NYU and Columbia, but I'm quite aware they are pipe dreams). Here's for the hoping! And I am a she for those wondering I wonder if that will help at all at Duke, as I'm under the impression as their numbers last year were like 57/43 m/f. Anyone know if that was just an anomaly or a pattern?

Are you on LSN? I'd be curious to see how your cycle turns out compared to mine.

[lawyerwannabe]

OP: I would still apply to Duke (as well as a lot of other mid range T-14s). My LSAT is slightly higher than yours (1-2 points) but I have a previous score that puts me almost exactly at your GPA/LSAT and I was already admitted to Duke and Georgetown. Unless you're absolutely strapped for cash and terrified of a rejection letter, apply.

OP is below both Duke medians. Your 1-2 pts on the LSAT is huge because it means your LSAT is either at or above Duke's 170 LSAT median. Based on the fact the class of 2014 kept the 170 LSAT median and sacrificed .05 GPA pts as compared to the previous year class, Duke seems pretty adamant in keeping their 170 LSAT median (something you help accomplish and something the OP does not).

[lawyerwannabe]

Two people with OP's numbers (or slightly worse / better) have been accepted in the last two cycles according to LSN.

[bdubs]

Two people with OP's numbers (or slightly worse / better) have been accepted in the last two cycles according to LSN.

No, no there aren't. Even at 170, OP wouldn't be secure at Duke.

http://duke.lawschoolnumbers.com/applic ... ,8&type=jd

[lawyerwannabe]

Two people with OP's numbers (or slightly worse / better) have been accepted in the last two cycles according to LSN.

No, no there aren't. Even at 170, OP wouldn't be secure at Duke.

http://duke.lawschoolnumbers.com/applic ... ,8&type=jd

Note the phrase "last two cycles" and search for applicants with an LSAT < 170 and a GPA < 3.7

Yes, yes there are...

[bdubs]

Two people with OP's numbers (or slightly worse / better) have been accepted in the last two cycles according to LSN.

No, no there aren't. Even at 170, OP wouldn't be secure at Duke.

http://duke.lawschoolnumbers.com/applic ... ,8&type=jd

Note the phrase "last two cycles" and search for applicants with an LSAT < 170 and a GPA < 3.7

Yes, yes there are...

There were zero last cycle, one who got in ED during the 09-10 cycle. You have to remember that Duke's LSAT median was 169 going in to 09-10, so the fact that they let someone in ED that cycle who was at one median has almost no predictive value now.

Others with lower numbers appear to be URM.

[nkp007]

It's right, you're a deny at Duke. It's wrong about a lot of the T5-T14, you're not a "consider" at most of them. Michigan and Cornell are probably the only schools you have a shot at in the T14.

OP - I think you have a shot. Keep us updated.

[Liquox]

http://duke.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats/1011/

looking at last year's applicants with your stats, it looks like you're going to get waitlisted at Duke, with a slight chance of rejection

[mmk33]

I think it's absolutely worth applying. You are 1 pt below median on LSAT and .1 on gpa, so that's not an ideal situation, but this cycle there are people with lower gpas and lower lsats who have been admitted (granted no one with lower ON BOTH, but there are half a dozen people with median GPA (170) and lower than median gpa (3.5-3.7x) who have gotten in. I'm waiting myself, and am 3.75/169.

[eaper]

I'm already in at GTown and UT with the same LSAT and a worse GPA, so you could probably have a decent chance in there (expect it is kinda late in the cycle). However, the lack of applicants could really effect things, so this would probably be a good year to take risks and reach. Good luck.

[ChillLaw]

On a related note, what's with Duke being more selective numbers wise than better ranked schools? LSN seems to indicate a wall for non-urms at 170. Whereas Mich, for example, seems more lenient with both gpa and LSAT. Are they truly just more holistic or...?

[Greenandgold]

On a related note, what's with Duke being more selective numbers wise than better ranked schools? LSN seems to indicate a wall for non-urms at 170. Whereas Mich, for example, seems more lenient with both gpa and LSAT. Are they truly just more holistic or...?

It's because they've basically only admitted students from their Priority Track application pool and they only offered those to people with a 170 or above IIRC.

[whitman]

On a related note, what's with Duke being more selective numbers wise than better ranked schools? LSN seems to indicate a wall for non-urms at 170. Whereas Mich, for example, seems more lenient with both gpa and LSAT. Are they truly just more holistic or...?

It's because they've basically only admitted students from their Priority Track application pool and they only offered those to people with a 170 or above IIRC.

That explains this year, but not last year: http://www.leiterrankings.com/new/2010_ ... ools.shtml