Top Law Schools

GPA: 3.62
LSAT: 165
URM: No
Softs: not so much, worked for the census 30 hours while iw as full time thats about it


I've checked the law school predictors numbers and it seems a pretty far stretch for UCLA or USC but I'm thinking I'm going to apply anyways and hope for the bottom 25%?

I'm hoping for:

UT
VANDY
UCLA
USC
GWU
UM

I'm thinking practically

UC Davis
Notre Dame
BC
W&L
Hastings


Safety

USD
USF
LMU
Pepperdine


am i literally throwing away 400$ to apply to the first 5 schools?

even if its like a 10% chance, and i apply for 5 i think it would be worth the shot?


edit: I should also add that I am from California and I'd ideally like to stay out here... I'm pretty sure I can get $$ from my safety schools but I wouldn't mind paying sticker to get into the best possible university.

Hey, well in all honesty your chances at Vandy, UT, and some of the other top schools probably aren't that great. Although you are at the 25% mark for some of the schools...chances are those are reserved for URMs. Since you are from California, it might help you out some with UCLA and USC...but only minimally. That being said, I still think you should apply to whichever schools you really want to go to. I know that some TLSers get their panties in a twist with the numbers game.. and although numbers are the biggest factor... it is NOT the only factor. There are those who get in to T14 schools with numbers below the median who are not URMs. So, I would say apply with the assumption that you probably won't get in, that way if you do get accepted you can piss your pants

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Even as a non-URM, non-resident of Texas ?

CanadianWolf wrote:Even as a non-URM, non-resident of Texas ?

Nope. Sorry. I really don't see that happening. With Vandy either. If you want to stay in CA (I got the hell out of that crappy economy, but whatevs), shoot for USC or UCLA, but apply early and cross your fingers. Davis and Hastings are probably good fits (number-wise).

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msblaw89 wrote: So, I would say apply with the assumption that you probably won't get in, that way if you do get accepted you can piss your pants

Haha, this is basically where I'm at right now...

swilson215 wrote:Nope. Sorry. I really don't see that happening. With Vandy either. If you want to stay in CA (I got the hell out of that crappy economy, but whatevs), shoot for USC or UCLA, but apply early and cross your fingers. Davis and Hastings are probably good fits (number-wise).

I appreciate the advice. Honestly, like I said earlier, it seems like a far stretch for me but the law school predictor told me I have a chance haha!

As for the CA economy being crappy, I'd have to agree but I was born and raised out here. Everyone I know, connections wise(though I don't have many) is out here in Los Angeles, San Diego, or San Francisco. I always wanted to go East Coast, and if I can get into BU or the like, I think I might do that over getting scholarship $$ to LMU or something like that. I honestly don't know yet.

As for applying early, I'm in the process of finishing up my personal statement... Should I shoot to have that out by like next week early? or do I realistically have like 2-3 weeks that wouldn't make much of a difference if I finished?

swilson215 wrote:With a strong Why-UT essay.

I'll look into this



Thank you all for your responses. TLS is such a great forum community. I cant believe I didnt even get a troll in here telling me my safety schools are reaches.

Oh yeah one more thing, I know Davis is higher ranked then Hastings, but I haven't heard very good things about the quality of life living up in Sacramento/Davis. I'm not trying to be picky, after all, my goal in going to law school is to graduate with a decent job, but I havent heard much about Davis from anybody to be honest... In fact I actually know 0 people who went to UC davis law or undergrad lol.

Davis had a recent jump in rankings, but if you take a look through some Hastings v. Davis threads in TLS, they will tell you that there is substantively little difference between the two schools. In fact, you'd have a better shot at BigLaw from Hastings.

But it's WAYYYYYY cheaper to live in Davis than anywhere in the bay area. It all depends what you're looking to do coming out of LS. I know a few people at Davis, they all enjoy it. The only person I know at Hastings likes it, but I've heard him complain about the area in SF more times than I can count!

Good luck!

swilson215 wrote:ut it's WAYYYYYY cheaper to live in Davis than anywhere in the bay area. It all depends what you're looking to do coming out of LS. I know a few people at Davis, they all enjoy it. The only person I know at Hastings likes it, but I've heard him complain about the area in SF more times than I can count!

True. Hastings is 6k cheaper in tuition, though I think that is probably mitigated by the higher cost of living in SF.

I honestly didn't think the tuition at either school was that high, based on what instate tuition was at UCLA I wasn't expecting either school to top 40k and they both did

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lakers3peat wrote:

swilson215 wrote:ut it's WAYYYYYY cheaper to live in Davis than anywhere in the bay area. It all depends what you're looking to do coming out of LS. I know a few people at Davis, they all enjoy it. The only person I know at Hastings likes it, but I've heard him complain about the area in SF more times than I can count!

True. Hastings is 6k cheaper in tuition, though I think that is probably mitigated by the higher cost of living in SF.

I honestly didn't think the tuition at either school was that high, based on what instate tuition was at UCLA I wasn't expecting either school to top 40k and they both did

Just to chime in on the Davis vs. Hastings debate.

I did my undergrad in San Jose and had a friend who went to Davis, so I know both areas.

San Francisco is a lot of fun, and you may want to go to Hastings just to be in SF and to be near the courthouse or whatever.

Though personally, I would choose Davis because from what I hear the classes at Hastings are huge, it's super competitive, and it's really hard to get more than literally one minute with your professor. Also Davis is a nice relaxed college town where people like to ride bikes, though it probably gets really hot during the summer.

Tim0thy222 wrote:Though personally, I would choose Davis because from what I hear the classes at Hastings are huge, it's super competitive, and it's really hard to get more than literally one minute with your professor. Also Davis is a nice relaxed college town where people like to ride bikes, though it probably gets really hot during the summer.

+1. The town is quiet, relaxed, collegiate (avoid frat row and choose your apt complex well and college students shouldn't be a problem), and you don't need to pay for parking/gas/etc because you can just bike everywhere. There is a lack of huge nightlife, if that's a concern of yours, but there are bars and you can drive to SF or Sac (lol) pretty easily for the weekend. It's actually a perfect grad school location, if you think about it.

Housing is pretty fucking cheap and, again, you can bike everywhere so location is not typically too much of an issue. If you do bring a car, you would likely only need to buy a pass to park on campus (instead of a pass for parking in your neighborhood + campus pass like in SF). If you're into biking as a sport/for recreation, there are some good trails in the area that take you through the 'countryside'/farmland.

It is quite hot during the summer and early fall (90s even into late September) but it's California, the weather here is pretty warm anyway. Also (pre-emptive comment), unless you live in the Tercero freshman UG dorms, there is no 'cow smell'.

crumpetsandtea wrote:unless you live in the Tercero freshman UG dorms, there is no 'cow smell'.

Also if you live in the domes (like my friend did), the hippies smell like cows. Don't live in the domes, unless you are a smelly hippy. Seriously, this is UC Davis housing.

--ImageRemoved--

Tim0thy222 wrote:

crumpetsandtea wrote:unless you live in the Tercero freshman UG dorms, there is no 'cow smell'.

Also if you live in the domes (like my friend did), the hippies smell like cows. Don't live in the domes, unless you are a smelly hippy. Seriously, this is UC Davis housing.

--ImageRemoved--

Dude, the Domes are run by the co-op on campus, of course they're full of hippies...I hardly would say that it's representative of 'UC Davis Housing' in general. (They throw freaking crazy parties though)

crumpetsandtea wrote:

Tim0thy222 wrote:Though personally, I would choose Davis because from what I hear the classes at Hastings are huge, it's super competitive, and it's really hard to get more than literally one minute with your professor. Also Davis is a nice relaxed college town where people like to ride bikes, though it probably gets really hot during the summer.

+1. The town is quiet, relaxed, collegiate (avoid frat row and choose your apt complex well and college students shouldn't be a problem), and you don't need to pay for parking/gas/etc because you can just bike everywhere. There is a lack of huge nightlife, if that's a concern of yours, but there are bars and you can drive to SF or Sac (lol) pretty easily for the weekend. It's actually a perfect grad school location, if you think about it.

Housing is pretty fucking cheap and, again, you can bike everywhere so location is not typically too much of an issue. If you do bring a car, you would likely only need to buy a pass to park on campus (instead of a pass for parking in your neighborhood + campus pass like in SF). If you're into biking as a sport/for recreation, there are some good trails in the area that take you through the 'countryside'/farmland.

It is quite hot during the summer and early fall (90s even into late September) but it's California, the weather here is pretty warm anyway. Also (pre-emptive comment), unless you live in the Tercero freshman UG dorms, there is no 'cow smell'.

thanks for all the useful information. i'm not even in yet and i'm already stressing about what option i would choose haha. i kind of do want to live in a place where i can go out and meet people but id say my biggest concern is getting good grades and a job after so.

lakers3peat wrote:thanks for all the useful information. i'm not even in yet and i'm already stressing about what option i would choose haha. i kind of do want to live in a place where i can go out and meet people but id say my biggest concern is getting good grades and a job after so.

No problem! Davis and Hastings are pretty much peer schools, so it really boils down to where you'd rather live and go to school: big city or small town?

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jim-green wrote:

crumpetsandtea wrote:

lakers3peat wrote:thanks for all the useful information. i'm not even in yet and i'm already stressing about what option i would choose haha. i kind of do want to live in a place where i can go out and meet people but id say my biggest concern is getting good grades and a job after so.

No problem! Davis and Hastings are pretty much peer schools, so it really boils down to where you'd rather live and go to school: big city or small town?

Big cities will always place better than small towns due to proximity to firms.

LOL That's not true "always", although it probably explains why Hastings at 40-something is peer schools with Davis, which is in the upper 20s. Making a statement like that with no context regarding which schools you're comparing is just silly. With that thought, any regional school will always place better than a T14 school from another state because of proximity to firms.

Generally speaking you need to be at or above at least one median to get into a school when you aren't a URM or have truly exceptional softs (Rhodes Scholar, Combat Veteran, etc.). And if you're above the GPA median, you should still be above the LSAT 25%. The lowest quartile of LSAT scores are mostly URMs, because they have tend to have disproportionately low LSAT scores moreso than low GPAs.

There are exceptions, of course, but your chances at your reach schools are very very low. Write strong "why" essays to the california schools; I wouldn't bother with UT and Vandy unless you have cash to throw around.

crumpetsandtea wrote:

jim-green wrote:

crumpetsandtea wrote:

lakers3peat wrote:thanks for all the useful information. i'm not even in yet and i'm already stressing about what option i would choose haha. i kind of do want to live in a place where i can go out and meet people but id say my biggest concern is getting good grades and a job after so.

No problem! Davis and Hastings are pretty much peer schools, so it really boils down to where you'd rather live and go to school: big city or small town?

Big cities will always place better than small towns due to proximity to firms.

LOL That's not true "always", although it probably explains why Hastings at 40-something is peer schools with Davis, which is in the upper 20s. Making a statement like that with no context regarding which schools you're comparing is just silly. With that thought, any regional school will always place better than a T14 school from another state because of proximity to firms.

But from what I understand, Davis has only recently made the jump in rankings. 2 years ago, davis was 35 and hastings 39.. not very different from each other. honestly what scares me the most was how you were saying its almost impossible to speak to professors at hastings. I went to a small private UG where it was the complete opposite and im facebook friends with half my professors... I really enjoyed that small classroom setting. I know that further complicates things for me but for now I'll just apply and see what happens when I have options.

duckmoney wrote: Generally speaking you need to be at or above at least one median to get into a school when you aren't a URM or have truly exceptional softs (Rhodes Scholar, Combat Veteran, etc.). And if you're above the GPA median, you should still be above the LSAT 25%. The lowest quartile of LSAT scores are mostly URMs, because they have tend to have disproportionately low LSAT scores moreso than low GPAs.

There are exceptions, of course, but your chances at your reach schools are very very low. Write strong "why" essays to the california schools; I wouldn't bother with UT and Vandy unless you have cash to throw around.

Yeah this is what I assumed. I mean to be completely honest, I already expect to be denied but just like my vegas trip last weekend, even though I know I'm going to lose money, the gamble is still worth it in my eyes. Throwing away $150-200 is not that big of a deal to me, considering in the bigger picture of things, I'm likely going to spend 40k for whatever school I end up getting into either way.

As for the "why" essays to california schools, do you recommend I do an individual one for each USC and UCLA ? or are you suggesting I do one to cover USC/UCLA/HASTINGS/DAVIS?


I recognize the importance of doing it for USC/UCLA because I am at their bottom 25% but do you think its necessary for hastings where I am above both medians?

thanks again for the responses.

and although I know the chances are very very low, YOU'RE SAYING THERE IS A CHANCE!!!

lakers3peat wrote:
Yeah this is what I assumed. I mean to be completely honest, I already expect to be denied but just like my vegas trip last weekend, even though I know I'm going to lose money, the gamble is still worth it in my eyes. Throwing away $150-200 is not that big of a deal to me, considering in the bigger picture of things, I'm likely going to spend 40k for whatever school I end up getting into either way.

As for the "why" essays to california schools, do you recommend I do an individual one for each USC and UCLA ? or are you suggesting I do one to cover USC/UCLA/HASTINGS/DAVIS?


I recognize the importance of doing it for USC/UCLA because I am at their bottom 25% but do you think its necessary for hastings where I am above both medians?

thanks again for the responses.

and although I know the chances are very very low, YOU'RE SAYING THERE IS A CHANCE!!!

There's always a chance. It's just a matter of how small that chance is. In this case, it's very small. If you could apply to UCLA for the next 50 cycles with every other factor being totally equal (obviously completely illogical, but go with it), you might get in 2 or 3 of those cycles. But hey, this year could be one of them!

The "Why" essay will probably look very similar for USC and UCLA, but individualize it as much as you can. It will probably be more California-centric than individual school-centric anyway. You probably don't need one for Hastings and Davis if you are above both medians, although one certainly wouldn't hurt.

One of my close friends (non-urm, average softs) got into UCLA last year with a 160 LSAT. It's always possible!

duckmoney wrote:

lakers3peat wrote:
Yeah this is what I assumed. I mean to be completely honest, I already expect to be denied but just like my vegas trip last weekend, even though I know I'm going to lose money, the gamble is still worth it in my eyes. Throwing away $150-200 is not that big of a deal to me, considering in the bigger picture of things, I'm likely going to spend 40k for whatever school I end up getting into either way.

As for the "why" essays to california schools, do you recommend I do an individual one for each USC and UCLA ? or are you suggesting I do one to cover USC/UCLA/HASTINGS/DAVIS?


I recognize the importance of doing it for USC/UCLA because I am at their bottom 25% but do you think its necessary for hastings where I am above both medians?

thanks again for the responses.

and although I know the chances are very very low, YOU'RE SAYING THERE IS A CHANCE!!!

There's always a chance. It's just a matter of how small that chance is. In this case, it's very small. If you could apply to UCLA for the next 50 cycles with every other factor being totally equal (obviously completely illogical, but go with it), you might get in 2 or 3 of those cycles. But hey, this year could be one of them!

The "Why" essay will probably look very similar for USC and UCLA, but individualize it as much as you can. It will probably be more California-centric than individual school-centric anyway. You probably don't need one for Hastings and Davis if you are above both medians, although one certainly wouldn't hurt.

Agree with this. I doubt you will get an admit, but you can always ride the waitlists!