Top Law Schools

Have a 3.1 GPA, and re-taking the LSAT in February (161 in October). I know a lot of the T-14 have GPA floors that are basically going to lock me out, but if someone would be nice enough to give me an idea of what kind of score I'd need for the following schools, I'd really appreciate it. Obviously I want to get the highest score possible, I guess I just want to temper my expectations if necessary.

In terms of softs, nothing worth mentioning, Dean's List for 2 years and I will have 2 years of WE before entering law school (not sure how to word this, since it will be one year at time of application, but I'll be working until I enter school the following Fall).

Temple
Fordham
UVA
Northwestern
Cornell
UPenn


Thanks for any help guys and gals.

Not locked out of NU, but you'd need a hell of an improvement on LSAT, obviously.

Penn is unlikely, but not impossible if you absolutely smash the retake. NU could work with a 172 or so, and obv 170+ and ED could get UVA

I'd be more concerned about the LSAT than GPA at this point. Schools might excuse a low GPA with a good LSAT score. But as of now, you're not really a splitter - your LSAT is on par with your GPA. Is there any information about your GPA (upward trend, hard-science major, etc.) that might put the # in a better context?

Of the schools you mention, only Temple is a realistic option with a 3.1/161. You'll need a pretty big jump in your LSAT score to even be 50/50 at any of those schools. Maybe Fordham or NU if you get into the high-160s.

Good luck on the February LSAT. I assume you'll be applying for Fall 2013 if you're not retaking until Feb.?

As a non-URM with a 3.1/161, you are probably locked out of the Top 25 law schools--although Illinois may be worth an application. Iowa & Ohio State are your only realistic chances at the Top 35 based solely on your numbers. Wake Forest may accept you. Of course, two years of WE & a higher LSAT score should open up some higher ranked options.

If you get to 175+ you could look at Michigan or Northwestern possibly.

172 for Virginia ED & a 173 for Northwestern.

danielhay11 wrote:I'd be more concerned about the LSAT than GPA at this point. Schools might excuse a low GPA with a good LSAT score. But as of now, you're not really a splitter - your LSAT is on par with your GPA. Is there any information about your GPA (upward trend, hard-science major, etc.) that might put the # in a better context?

Of the schools you mention, only Temple is a realistic option with a 3.1/161. You'll need a pretty big jump in your LSAT score to even be 50/50 at any of those schools. Maybe Fordham or NU if you get into the high-160s.

Good luck on the February LSAT. I assume you'll be applying for Fall 2013 if you're not retaking until Feb.?

Yes, I'd be applying for 2013. I figure with my GPA, I need every advantage I can get, and the extra year of WE can't hurt. I don't intend on applying to any schools with my current LSAT. As far as my GPA, I have a consistent upward trend from the first semester to the last. History major, so no points there, did better in my major classes than any of my lower level ones, partially because I decided on law school and partially because the classes weren't so boring. I was PTing around 165 prior to the October test, and I basically bailed on my prep through most of the summer, so I'm confident enough I can make an improvement for February.

JamMasterJ wrote:Penn is unlikely, but not impossible if you absolutely smash the retake. NU could work with a 172 or so, and obv 170+ and ED could get UVA

I figured as much, I think their GPA floor is around 3.3 or so. That's kinda my super reach, even if I break into the 170s.

rinkrat19 wrote:Not locked out of NU, but you'd need a hell of an improvement on LSAT, obviously.

That's the plan

CanadianWolf wrote:As a non-URM with a 3.1/161, you are probably locked out of the Top 25 law schools--although Illinois may be worth an application. Iowa & Ohio State are your only realistic chances at the Top 35 based solely on your numbers. Wake Forest may accept you. Of course, two years of WE & a higher LSAT score should open up some higher ranked options.

This is pretty much what I gathered from LSN and LSP, prior to the test I was set on retaking if I didn't break 168. Admittedly, I was not as ready as I wanted to be.

CanadianWolf wrote:172 for Virginia ED & a 173 for Northwestern.

Is that NU ED, or just regular application?

NU RD because ED acceptees get full tuition scholarships starting this cycle which will make ED acceptances difficult.

I appreciate all the responses. I noticed no one really addressed Cornell and Fordham, are they generally unfriendly towards splitters?

CanadianWolf wrote:NU RD because ED acceptees get full tuition scholarships starting this cycle.

Did not know that, thanks. I guess that's good in the sense I wouldn't have to decide between ED UVA or NU. I understand NU puts a good deal of weight into work experience though?

emarxnj wrote:

CanadianWolf wrote:NU RD because ED acceptees get full tuition scholarships starting this cycle.

Did not know that, thanks. I guess that's good in the sense I wouldn't have to decide between ED UVA or NU. I understand NU puts a good deal of weight into work experience though?

NU more or less "requires" work experience. Something like 85% of students have 2 years WE and 98% have 1 year. (And that 2% without WE typically have really stellar numbers.) And while they don't require that it be, like, managing 300 people at a F500, they would prefer that it be full-time, self-supporting WE, not just part-time at Old Navy while you live with your parents.

rinkrat19 wrote:

emarxnj wrote:

CanadianWolf wrote:NU RD because ED acceptees get full tuition scholarships starting this cycle.

Did not know that, thanks. I guess that's good in the sense I wouldn't have to decide between ED UVA or NU. I understand NU puts a good deal of weight into work experience though?

NU more or less "requires" work experience. Something like 85% of students have 2 years WE and 98% have 1 year. (And that 2% without WE typically have really stellar numbers.) And while they don't require that it be, like, managing 300 people at a F500, they would prefer that it be full-time, self-supporting WE, not just part-time at Old Navy while you live with your parents.

"Project Consultant" at the leading energy consultant in the state. I guess the actual line of work doesn't matter, but it is a full-time gig, not in retail or food service. But I do live with my parents...I can't turn down free room and board

emarxnj wrote:

rinkrat19 wrote:

emarxnj wrote:

CanadianWolf wrote:NU RD because ED acceptees get full tuition scholarships starting this cycle.

Did not know that, thanks. I guess that's good in the sense I wouldn't have to decide between ED UVA or NU. I understand NU puts a good deal of weight into work experience though?

NU more or less "requires" work experience. Something like 85% of students have 2 years WE and 98% have 1 year. (And that 2% without WE typically have really stellar numbers.) And while they don't require that it be, like, managing 300 people at a F500, they would prefer that it be full-time, self-supporting WE, not just part-time at Old Navy while you live with your parents.

"Project Consultant" at the leading energy consultant in the state. I guess the actual line of work doesn't matter, but it is a full-time gig, not in retail or food service. But I do live with my parents...I can't turn down free room and board

Yeah, that WE would sound fine to them.

rinkrat19 wrote:

emarxnj wrote:

rinkrat19 wrote:

emarxnj wrote:
Did not know that, thanks. I guess that's good in the sense I wouldn't have to decide between ED UVA or NU. I understand NU puts a good deal of weight into work experience though?

NU more or less "requires" work experience. Something like 85% of students have 2 years WE and 98% have 1 year. (And that 2% without WE typically have really stellar numbers.) And while they don't require that it be, like, managing 300 people at a F500, they would prefer that it be full-time, self-supporting WE, not just part-time at Old Navy while you live with your parents.

"Project Consultant" at the leading energy consultant in the state. I guess the actual line of work doesn't matter, but it is a full-time gig, not in retail or food service. But I do live with my parents...I can't turn down free room and board

Yeah, that WE would sound fine to them.

So is the consensus that >172 would give me a good shot a NU?


And as I mentioned above, am I out at Cornell and Fordham by my GPA? I know Fordham isn't ranked as high as these other schools I've mentioned, but NYC is my goal, and no one mentioned it, so I figured they were both splitter unfriendly.

emarxnj wrote:I appreciate all the responses. I noticed no one really addressed Cornell and Fordham, are they generally unfriendly towards splitters?

My guess is that with your GPA you'll need at least a 167 to reach Fordham. The WE may help you a bit.

nygrrrl wrote:

emarxnj wrote:I appreciate all the responses. I noticed no one really addressed Cornell and Fordham, are they generally unfriendly towards splitters?

My guess is that with your GPA you'll need at least a 167 to reach Fordham. The WE may help you a bit.

So long as it doesn't hurt me Thanks for the reply

nygrrrl wrote:

emarxnj wrote:I appreciate all the responses. I noticed no one really addressed Cornell and Fordham, are they generally unfriendly towards splitters?

My guess is that with your GPA you'll need at least a 167 to reach Fordham. The WE may help you a bit.

You might even need 169+ for FU with a 3.1 GPA. Although, Fordham has a PT program that has less rigorous standards. If NYC is your dream (and I'd advise against paying the NYC premium for lower-tier schools), this might be your best bet.

def not, its easier to get into full time than part time despite high medians...isn't there like 30 or 40 people only in part time? PT is not the back door it used to be.

HyeMart wrote:def not, its easier to get into full time than part time despite high medians...isn't there like 30 or 40 people only in part time? PT is not the back door it used to be.

Sounds about right, but I assumed the # of students was a function of demand.

it was double that 2 years ago...when U.S. started counting part time. Part time accept rates are also (i think) in the single digits for the top 3 programs at least.

danielhay11 wrote:

nygrrrl wrote:

emarxnj wrote:I appreciate all the responses. I noticed no one really addressed Cornell and Fordham, are they generally unfriendly towards splitters?

My guess is that with your GPA you'll need at least a 167 to reach Fordham. The WE may help you a bit.

You might even need 169+ for FU with a 3.1 GPA. Although, Fordham has a PT program that has less rigorous standards. If NYC is your dream (and I'd advise against paying the NYC premium for lower-tier schools), this might be your best bet.

I'd say NY is the goal for sure, but I'm not going to fork over money to Cardozo or Brooklyn to get there.

I know this is a two month bump, but obviously these schools would all be at sticker price. I'd probably do that for most of the schools on that list (especially the bigger reaches like UPenn obviously), but whats the general consensus on Fordham at sticker? I hear there is a large degree of loyalty from some firms, but I just want to be realistic considering its NYC.

emarxnj wrote:General consensus on Fordham at sticker?

Don't do it.

Nelson wrote:

emarxnj wrote:General consensus on Fordham at sticker?

Don't do it.

About what I imagined. Thanks.

Though, am I right in thinking that a school like NU or UVA would be worth it at sticker? Or is the legal market just that shitty...