4.07/165 and some kinda unique softs- chances? Forum

[IAFG]

I disagree a little with the general advice you're getting. You're a reverse splitter. Your big disadvantage is that there are more people with good GPAs and weak LSATs than the opposite. Still, I do think your background could catch the eye of an adcomm. I would seriously consider 1) re-taking 2) getting a full time job for 1 year after graduation, ideally at your think tank (or part time if you can afford it, no one asks about that) and 3) EDing to a splitter friendly school.

Good luck.

Seriously? Like 80% of the people at my school have some kind of substantially similar soft. They all did amazing things on this level. There's always a chance but I wouldn't bet my cycle on it.

And a lot of people at your school are reverse splitters so I am not sure what your point is.

[03121202698008]

I disagree a little with the general advice you're getting. You're a reverse splitter. Your big disadvantage is that there are more people with good GPAs and weak LSATs than the opposite. Still, I do think your background could catch the eye of an adcomm. I would seriously consider 1) re-taking 2) getting a full time job for 1 year after graduation, ideally at your think tank (or part time if you can afford it, no one asks about that) and 3) EDing to a splitter friendly school.

Good luck.

Seriously? Like 80% of the people at my school have some kind of substantially similar soft. They all did amazing things on this level. There's always a chance but I wouldn't bet my cycle on it.

And a lot of people at your school are reverse splitters so I am not sure what your point is.

They are people like me...reverse splitters with a 167/168. Unless you're a URM, 165 isn't going to cut it in the T14. Or, at least not that I'd be willing to count on. Take a look at LSN.

I cracked only 3-4 of the T14 with a 168/3.92, and substantial softs (10 years in the military, combat deployments, senior advisory positions at Dept of State, masters, etc.)

[gravityrides0]

But a lot of reverse splitters are also 3.9's instead of 4.07's... Don't some schools want to increase GPAs?

[IAFG]

Eh you are probably right. She is going to need a 25th percentile+ LSAT to have a decent reverse splitter shot.

[IAFG]

But a lot of reverse splitters are also 3.9's instead of 4.07's... Don't some schools want to increase GPAs?

Math doesn't work that way.

[03121202698008]

But a lot of reverse splitters are also 3.9's instead of 4.07's... Don't some schools want to increase GPAs?

They report medians. Once your above their 75th, it doesn't matter how high it is.

[koalatriste]

i cant believe everyone has bitten at this ridiculous flame.

[thederangedwang]

gonna have to agree with blowhard

a few weeks of prep for the lsat is not enough, the op has room for considerable improvement....with that gpa, and something close to a 170, the op will have a very different cycle compared to the one he is going to have if he sticks with his current lsat score.

as to the op,

as long as your above a school's 75% it really doesnt matter what gpa u have

the difference between 4.07 and a 3.99 is inconsequential as both wont affect the median more than it does already....

[thederangedwang]

To the OP

3, 3.5,3.6 4.07....what is the median?

3, 3.5,3.6, 3.7....what is the median?

a 4.07 isnt going to help after a certain extent...see my point?

[gravityrides0]

Yeah. Dammit.

When I said I was studying a ton a few weeks prior, that's in addition to a lot of studying 2.5 months prior with my prep course. I know I could have studied more, but I take law school courses and work, so I wasn't able to put all that on hold for longer than that.

So no one really thinks being above a 75th percentile and below a 25th percentile won't balance out somewhere? jfgjfjkjkhgkjf

[03121202698008]

Yeah. Dammit.

When I said I was studying a ton a few weeks prior, that's in addition to a lot of studying 2.5 months prior with my prep course. I know I could have studied more, but I take law school courses and work, so I wasn't able to put all that on hold for longer than that.

So no one really thinks being above a 75th percentile and below a 25th percentile won't balance out somewhere? jfgjfjkjkhgkjf

It's worth a shot if your dead-set on applying without a retake but I wouldn't count on it. It's more of a dream that may magically happen if the stars align kind of chance. The good news is, with a 165 you can come up through more targeted studying. If you can get a 165, you can get a 170. You're only talking 4-5 more correct answers on the whole test to completely change your cycle and potentially get $$ from schools.

Edit: The problem is, its way easier for schools to get high GPAs than high LSATs. They aren't going to let you in to bump one if you're going to drag the other down. While the 25th is still based on a median, it's much more likely to move than the 75th with your GPA.

[thederangedwang]

Yeah. Dammit.

When I said I was studying a ton a few weeks prior, that's in addition to a lot of studying 2.5 months prior with my prep course. I know I could have studied more, but I take law school courses and work, so I wasn't able to put all that on hold for longer than that.

So no one really thinks being above a 75th percentile and below a 25th percentile won't balance out somewhere? jfgjfjkjkhgkjf

thats our point..it will balance out somewhere...but then it comes down to your softs which all of us have said are not special. Meaning, its gonna be a crapshoot for u...best of luck

[gravityrides0]

I had a friend from ASU with a 163, a 4.0, and pretty normal softs get on a bunch of waitlists (including Columbia, surprisingly), and she ended up getting a call from UCLA a week before school started. I guess I will just keep my fingers crossed and try to be strategic in my personal statement. Thanks for the perspective, everyone.

[Flips88]

I had a friend from ASU with a 163, a 4.0, and pretty normal softs get on a bunch of waitlists (including Columbia, surprisingly), and she ended up getting a call from UCLA a week before school started. I guess I will just keep my fingers crossed and try to be strategic in my personal statement. Thanks for the perspective, everyone.

California schools are notorious GPA whores. Also, the Columbia WL was likely a soft-rejection

[03121202698008]

I had a friend from ASU with a 163, a 4.0, and pretty normal softs get on a bunch of waitlists (including Columbia, surprisingly), and she ended up getting a call from UCLA a week before school started. I guess I will just keep my fingers crossed and try to be strategic in my personal statement. Thanks for the perspective, everyone.

Good luck. Keep in mind that many people don't like to admit they were rejected so claim they were waitlisted. Not saying this is the case, but take claims of waitlists with a grain of salt. Getting off a list a week before school starts is about as big of a crapshoot as I'd be willing to take with my future.

[kams]

Yeah, the 4.07 is my LSDAS GPA... I would retake, but my practice scores (with a prep course) were ranging from 163ish to 169ish, and I was studying a ton a few weeks prior to the test. I don't really see it going up more than a point of two. I'm simply not a sharp test taker. And the lawschool predictor has a lot of "considers" which leads me to believe that if I applied to 8 of my "considers" in the T14, I could potentially get into a couple? But I realize that more likely I'll just get on a few waitlists and be taking anxiety meds all summer.

I wasn't saying my softs are necessary special, more that I have an interesting science policy/ sustainability/ ecology background and did something other than interning at a law firm or debate or something more typical of the "pre-law" student. So maybe I can play that up just to look slightly different from everyone else.

I honestly don't think you'll get into any T14s with that LSAT. I'm not sure about UCLA either. I'm guessing somewhere in the 20-25 range.

[Flips88]

Yeah, the 4.07 is my LSDAS GPA... I would retake, but my practice scores (with a prep course) were ranging from 163ish to 169ish, and I was studying a ton a few weeks prior to the test. I don't really see it going up more than a point of two. I'm simply not a sharp test taker. And the lawschool predictor has a lot of "considers" which leads me to believe that if I applied to 8 of my "considers" in the T14, I could potentially get into a couple? But I realize that more likely I'll just get on a few waitlists and be taking anxiety meds all summer.

I wasn't saying my softs are necessary special, more that I have an interesting science policy/ sustainability/ ecology background and did something other than interning at a law firm or debate or something more typical of the "pre-law" student. So maybe I can play that up just to look slightly different from everyone else.

I honestly don't think you'll get into any T14s with that LSAT. I'm not sure about UCLA either. I'm guessing somewhere in the 20-25 range.

Sup.

[5ky]

Yeah, the 4.07 is my LSDAS GPA... I would retake, but my practice scores (with a prep course) were ranging from 163ish to 169ish, and I was studying a ton a few weeks prior to the test. I don't really see it going up more than a point of two. I'm simply not a sharp test taker. And the lawschool predictor has a lot of "considers" which leads me to believe that if I applied to 8 of my "considers" in the T14, I could potentially get into a couple? But I realize that more likely I'll just get on a few waitlists and be taking anxiety meds all summer.

I wasn't saying my softs are necessary special, more that I have an interesting science policy/ sustainability/ ecology background and did something other than interning at a law firm or debate or something more typical of the "pre-law" student. So maybe I can play that up just to look slightly different from everyone else.

I honestly don't think you'll get into any T14s with that LSAT. I'm not sure about UCLA either. I'm guessing somewhere in the 20-25 range.

Sup.

Congrats on Northwestern for sure, but don't even pretend like you aren't an extremely unusual case.

[buckilaw]

Hey all! I honestly am thinking chances are looking bleak for me since I got a just-ok LSAT score, but the lawschoolpredictor calculator is giving me some (false?) hope.

Got a 165, and my GPA is a 4.07... My transcript, resume, Phi Beta Kappa, and concurrent majors (B.S.'s) also make it clear that I have taken some of the hardest courses I could have taken at my school (ASU), including honors classes, grad classes, and classes at Sandra Day O'Connor. My softs are pretty good... I have a great research job at a science policy think tank and am doing an interesting sustainability thesis project, and was a researcher for awhile in an ecology lab (hoping the science/ research background could make me stand out a little bit). I also am in a social sorority and have been Career and Personal Development Director for awhile. I've got a solid four LoRs which should turn out pretty well. The only pretty bad part of my softs is a couple of underage drinking tickets, but that's life.

I know Columbia and Stanford are a HUGE stretch for me, but those are my top choices. Here is a complete list of what I am hoping to apply to. For some reason, I think Boalt could be a very real possibility, but please let me know if you think it is much less likely than I'm hoping...

Stanford
Columbia
NYU
UPenn
Boalt
UVa
Duke
Georgetown
UCLA
UT
USC
GW
---
Thoughts?

If I am unlikely to get into any of these, I guess I'll either look into the T30 range, or retake, or join the Peace Corps, or kill myself.

I predict a substantial amount of auto-dings.

However, if you retake and get around a 168 or so you will be in good shape.

[Flips88]

Hey all! I honestly am thinking chances are looking bleak for me since I got a just-ok LSAT score, but the lawschoolpredictor calculator is giving me some (false?) hope.

Got a 165, and my GPA is a 4.07... My transcript, resume, Phi Beta Kappa, and concurrent majors (B.S.'s) also make it clear that I have taken some of the hardest courses I could have taken at my school (ASU), including honors classes, grad classes, and classes at Sandra Day O'Connor. My softs are pretty good... I have a great research job at a science policy think tank and am doing an interesting sustainability thesis project, and was a researcher for awhile in an ecology lab (hoping the science/ research background could make me stand out a little bit). I also am in a social sorority and have been Career and Personal Development Director for awhile. I've got a solid four LoRs which should turn out pretty well. The only pretty bad part of my softs is a couple of underage drinking tickets, but that's life.

I know Columbia and Stanford are a HUGE stretch for me, but those are my top choices. Here is a complete list of what I am hoping to apply to. For some reason, I think Boalt could be a very real possibility, but please let me know if you think it is much less likely than I'm hoping...

Stanford
Columbia
NYU
UPenn
Boalt
UVa
Duke
Georgetown
UCLA
UT
USC
GW
---
Thoughts?

If I am unlikely to get into any of these, I guess I'll either look into the T30 range, or retake, or join the Peace Corps, or kill myself.

I predict a substantial amount of auto-dings.

However, if you retake and get around a 168 or so you will be in good shape.

I would say auto-ding at any T-6, WL at the rest of the T-14 with some serious work to get off one, Maybe in at UCLA/USC. In at GW but likely zero money and GW is not worth sticker. Also add Cornell. They'd probably accept OP.

[lakers3peat]

To the OP

3, 3.5,3.6 4.07....what is the median?

3, 3.5,3.6, 3.7....what is the median?

a 4.07 isnt going to help after a certain extent...see my point?

[lrslayer]

retake. with your gpa you can afford to apply after a december retake. then you can take your 4.07 and newly earned 180 to get into any school you want

[Badgers2012]

I didn't read through all the responses, but saw someone say even with ED your chances for UVA are bleak. I totally disagree with that and say you have a great chance. People with 3.9ish and 163-165 have gotten in in bunches for UVA ED. Probably your best shot at mid T-14

[Geneva]

I had a friend from ASU with a 163, a 4.0, and pretty normal softs get on a bunch of waitlists (including Columbia, surprisingly), and she ended up getting a call from UCLA a week before school started. I guess I will just keep my fingers crossed and try to be strategic in my personal statement. Thanks for the perspective, everyone.

so this is random, but how many people at asu get 4.0s? i just noticed this thread and it seems like there may be some grade inflation going on...schools see (but maybe don't care about? i have no idea) how your gpa compares to other ppl from ur undergrad applying to law school.

[mattviphky]

congrats on the high GPA! You've already done the hard part, going through school with a great GPA, and having solid softs. While your softs are good and unique relative to other undergrads, they are very underwhelming relative to (serious) T14 applicants. So if I were in your shoes, I would take this coming year off, maybe continue to work your part time job, and knock out a solid retake in June/October. HYS is a possibility, so don't waste it!