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I'm interested in teaching law (mostly interested in health, bioethics and technology law) and Harvard's JD/LLM program with Cambridge is a particularly attractive path towards that goal. I got a 173 on my LSAT, a 3.3 GPA from undergrad and a 4.0 GPA from Johns Hopkins neuroscience Ph.D program (left after receiving my M.A. in neuroscience) and have published peer-reviewed papers in that field.

I realize my undergrad GPA is quite low and my LSAT is just average for Harvard, but I'm hoping my M.A. at Hopkins in neuroscience and publishing experience will help me out since I'm interested in relevant areas of law teaching. Do I stand a chance or should I not bother applying?

You tell me if it looks good for people with 3.3's:

http://harvard.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats/1011/
http://harvard.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats/0910/
http://harvard.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats/0809/
http://harvard.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats/0708/

That being said, if it's your dream then go ahead and burn the app fee.

TBF, there's a couple waitlists in there and you have some good softs. I mean, it's pretty unlikely, but I think it's worth the app. It's a comparatively small amount of money.

Apply, but I say pipe dream. Sorry.

With slightly better stats (but still not a HLS gpa) and a completed dissertation at an equally prestigious institution, I didn't get HLS. I also wanted academia. Good luck though!

You should be focused on CCN-range schools. All are possibilities given your stats. But that GPA just isn't going to cut it for HYS.

My softs are not nearly as strong as yours, but I did not submit an app to Harvard. I have very similar numbers.

So if I'm understanding LSAC's GPA conversion policies correctly, they don't factor in grad school grades at all? Seems rather absurd that some basic req I took when 18 that was totally irrelevant to my major can count against me but the phd-level courses I took most recently and that bear a direct relation to my future goals are ignored.

I suppose my current work experience doesn't matter either? I work for the DoD managing clinical trials aimed at treating PTSD, depression and suicide in the military.

Chad wrote:So if I'm understanding LSAC's GPA conversion policies correctly, they don't factor in grad school grades at all? Seems rather absurd that some basic req I took when 18 that was totally irrelevant to my major can count against me but the phd-level courses I took most recently and that bear a direct relation to my future goals are ignored.

I suppose my current work experience doesn't matter either? I work for the DoD managing clinical trials aimed at treating PTSD, depression and suicide in the military.

It all matters, just not very much compared to UGPA/LSAT. If you can't get used to accepting absurd rules, how are you going to cut it in law?

I would absolutely apply. Sure, the odds are way stacked against you. But your chances are not zero. Isn't the 70 dollars or whatever worth the peace of mind you get knowing you at least tried.

I have a 3.1, with very average softs. However, if I score at the top of my LSAT PT range 173-178, I'm gonna apply because knowing I tried and didn't get in is worth more to me than the money.

Its a pipe dream, but it isn't impossible so I would throw an app if its your perfect fit. You only have one shot of getting in though IMO and that's developing a relationship with a relevant HLS faculty member. I know someone who was non-URM with strong softs including a very prestigious award who got HLS with a 164 on the LSAT. That's an auto-reject LSAT like your auto-reject GPA. However, she wrote about a passion for a certain genre of the law, had shown a commitment through her work both in academia and in the workforce to that genre, and happened through that to have developed a relationship at a conference with the main HLS academic in that genre (and impressed her/him). She was held then WL'd, but when the prof found out about the WL, she said she'd make some calls and my friend was admitted a week later. She told me it was 100% that the faculty member wanted her there. I am sure she'll be working on some joint projects with that academic and that was the point. So if you know Harvard is the place for you, get cracking on developing a relationship with the scholar's work that makes it the right fit for you. Figure out what you can bring to the table, perhaps a shared passion but a technical weakness of theirs that you can fulfill. Otherwise, you can find similar programs at other schools that are more realistic for your numbers anyhow.

Veyron wrote:

Chad wrote:So if I'm understanding LSAC's GPA conversion policies correctly, they don't factor in grad school grades at all? Seems rather absurd that some basic req I took when 18 that was totally irrelevant to my major can count against me but the phd-level courses I took most recently and that bear a direct relation to my future goals are ignored.

I suppose my current work experience doesn't matter either? I work for the DoD managing clinical trials aimed at treating PTSD, depression and suicide in the military.

It all matters, just not very much compared to UGPA/LSAT. If you can't get used to accepting absurd rules, how are you going to cut it in law?

Because being irritated by a pretty stupid policy = unable to accept absurd rules. Got it.

You should definitely apply. Ironically enough, though, I think the fact that you didn't complete your PhD will give you a harder time than your pedestrian undergraduate GPA.

Enjoy MVPDN. NYU is worth an app as well.

How did you get in to your PhD program with a 3.3? Were you top ranked in your undergrad program?

TheFriendlyBarber wrote:I think the fact that you didn't complete your PhD will give you a harder time than your pedestrian undergraduate GPA.

+1

bdubs wrote:How did you get in to your PhD program with a 3.3? Were you top ranked in your undergrad program?

My in-major GPA was 3.8, I graduated with honors and completed an independent research thesis which I won some grant funding for, my GRE was fairly high and I consider myself a pretty persuasive writer on those personal statements. A glowing letter of rec from my thesis adviser (who was also chair of the dept) didn't hurt either.

Chad wrote:

bdubs wrote:How did you get in to your PhD program with a 3.3? Were you top ranked in your undergrad program?

My in-major GPA was 3.8, I graduated with honors and completed an independent research thesis which I won some grant funding for, my GRE was fairly high and I consider myself a pretty persuasive writer on those personal statements. A glowing letter of rec from my thesis adviser (who was also chair of the dept) didn't hurt either.

Yeah, it would probably be different if 3.3 was in the top 5 or 10 percent of the class, but doing poorly in areas outside of bio/neuroscience will probably not be particularly convincing to a law school admissions committee.

bdubs wrote:

Chad wrote:

bdubs wrote:How did you get in to your PhD program with a 3.3? Were you top ranked in your undergrad program?

My in-major GPA was 3.8, I graduated with honors and completed an independent research thesis which I won some grant funding for, my GRE was fairly high and I consider myself a pretty persuasive writer on those personal statements. A glowing letter of rec from my thesis adviser (who was also chair of the dept) didn't hurt either.

Yeah, it would probably be different if 3.3 was in the top 5 or 10 percent of the class, but doing poorly in areas outside of bio/neuroscience will probably not be particularly convincing to a law school admissions committee.

Actually my in-major GPA comes from my dual B.A. in psych and philosophy. It was finite math and chem that screwed my GPA with a couple C's. I've never been great at those subjects and my family went through some financial hard times my first year.

OP: Out of curiosity, how do you know you want to teach law? I understand why you might want teach about health policy, etc., but teaching those subjects at a law school is quite different than doing so in a college setting. Besides, the thought of having to earn a living teaching 1L courses gives me shivers.

Kochel wrote:OP: Out of curiosity, how do you know you want to teach law? I understand why you might want teach about health policy, etc., but teaching those subjects at a law school is quite different than doing so in a college setting. Besides, the thought of having to earn a living teaching 1L courses gives me shivers.

Sometimes you just know.

lawschoolpredictor.com shows that you would need a LSAT score of 184--yes, 184--to be admitted to Harvard Law School with a 3.3 GPA. Yale requires a 187.

CanadianWolf wrote:lawschoolpredictor.com shows that you would need a LSAT score of 184--yes, 184--to be admitted to Harvard Law School with a 3.3 GPA. Yale requires a 187.

Yes it is. Next question.

Bildungsroman wrote:Yes it is. Next question.

What kind of bleach should I use to make my whites extra white?

HeavenWood wrote:

Bildungsroman wrote:Yes it is. Next question.

What kind of bleach should I use to make my whites extra white?

Throw them out and buy new clothes, we've got an economy to save.