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Thanks for all the help

I don't mean to be discouraging, but I will tell you what just about every other TLSer will tell you, which is that you have virtually no chance at a T-20. The 4.0 GPA is pretty much irrelevant, your stats are 3.5/159. Your softs are solid but everyone will tell you that softs will not allow you to greatly outperform your numbers, which are just not that high. If you really want the T-20, you should retake the LSAT.

TheZoid wrote:I don't mean to be discouraging, but I will tell you what just about every other TLSer will tell you, which is that you have virtually no chance at a T-20. The 4.0 GPA is pretty much irrelevant, your stats are 3.5/159. Your softs are solid but everyone will tell you that softs will not allow you to greatly outperform your numbers, which are just not that high. If you really want the T-20, you should retake the LSAT.

QFT one of my UG friends had a low 160's LSAT and amazing softs/internships with all kinds of NGO's for all 4 years and a 3.9 something GPA. She was rejected by all t14 and ended up at American.

you really should re-take the lsat because even with a 165 you would have a shot at maybe cornell/GULC with a master's and strong LOR's. Certainly a strong shot at T20-25

Thanks for the info, guys. I'm disappointed but also hopeful. Is there a possibility I could transfer to a T-20 after my first year if I performed extremely well in class?

nickjive wrote:Thanks for the info, guys. I'm disappointed but also hopeful. Is there a possibility I could transfer to a T-20 after my first year if I performed extremely well in class?

possible, but much harder than re-taking the LSAT. how many times have you taken it?

Moomoo2u wrote: you really should re-take the lsat because even with a 165 you would have a shot at maybe cornell/GULC with a master's and strong LOR's. Certainly a strong shot at T20-25

165? Nah brah. 165 is a dead zone and will almost assuredly NOT get Cornell/GULC with that UGPA. Want T20? You're gonna want like a 167/168 for a shot, and you definitely want to do even better than that.

nickjive wrote:Thanks for the info, guys. I'm disappointed but also hopeful. Is there a possibility I could transfer to a T-20 after my first year if I performed extremely well in class?

Way easier to retake the LSAT than to do well enough in your school to make a worthwhile transfer. There are a ton of other associated issues with transferring (losing professor contacts, making new friends, having a weird OCI, etc.)

Grizz wrote:

Moomoo2u wrote: you really should re-take the lsat because even with a 165 you would have a shot at maybe cornell/GULC with a master's and strong LOR's. Certainly a strong shot at T20-25

165? Nah brah. 165 is a dead zone and will almost assuredly NOT get Cornell/GULC with that UGPA. Want T20? You're gonna want like a 167/168 for a shot, and you definitely want to do even better than that.

Look Breh 25/75 for:

Washington U 162-168
GW 162-168

165 is probably median (too lazy to look it up) and with a high gpa and a master's you would probably be given a very small boost that would give you a fighting chance.

Probably right about Cornell/Gtown though bro

I've only taken the LSAT once. I want to apply to schools this fall, so is retaking the LSAT in October too late?

Moomoo2u wrote:

Grizz wrote:

Moomoo2u wrote: you really should re-take the lsat because even with a 165 you would have a shot at maybe cornell/GULC with a master's and strong LOR's. Certainly a strong shot at T20-25

165? Nah brah. 165 is a dead zone and will almost assuredly NOT get Cornell/GULC with that UGPA. Want T20? You're gonna want like a 167/168 for a shot, and you definitely want to do even better than that.

Look Breh 25/75 for:

Washington U 162-168
GW 162-168

165 is probably median (too lazy to look it up) and with a high gpa and a master's you would probably be given a very small boost that would give you a fighting chance.

Probably right about Cornell/Gtown though bro

Except she doesn't have a high GPA. Look at these applicants who had a 3.5/165 and see where they were admitted:

http://lawschoolnumbers.com/rlm124
http://lawschoolnumbers.com/tron
http://lawschoolnumbers.com/MarquisInSpades
http://lawschoolnumbers.com/MattThiessen
http://lawschoolnumbers.com/rkb1989

nickjive wrote:I've only taken the LSAT once. I want to apply to schools this fall, so is retaking the LSAT in October too late?

Retaking in October is not too late, but October may be too soon to get a 159 to the mid/high 160s.

Virtually every single person here will tell you that it's better to take as long as you need to get your LSAT where you need it, even if that means waiting a year, than applying with a crappy score.

Moomoo2u wrote:

Grizz wrote:

Moomoo2u wrote: you really should re-take the lsat because even with a 165 you would have a shot at maybe cornell/GULC with a master's and strong LOR's. Certainly a strong shot at T20-25

165? Nah brah. 165 is a dead zone and will almost assuredly NOT get Cornell/GULC with that UGPA. Want T20? You're gonna want like a 167/168 for a shot, and you definitely want to do even better than that.

Look Breh 25/75 for:

Washington U 162-168
GW 162-168

165 is probably median (too lazy to look it up) and with a high gpa and a master's you would probably be given a very small boost that would give you a fighting chance.

Probably right about Cornell/Gtown though bro

What Bildungs said is 100% spot on

Hell with Masters in Education, I'm inclined to say just be an educator due to terrible legal economy. Not sure how education is doing right now though, to be fair.

nickjive wrote:Thanks for the info, guys. I'm disappointed but also hopeful. Is there a possibility I could transfer to a T-20 after my first year if I performed extremely well in class?

This is a uniformly terrible idea. If you want to go to a T20 school, you need to spend some serious time prepping for a retake on the LSAT that will get you into that school. As someone who has gone through the transfer process successfully, I can assure you that going to a school with that goal in mind is an awful idea. Don't even think about enrolling in a school unless you 100% plan on graduating from there, and are comfortable with the school in terms of location, job prospects, etc.

Unfortunately as other posters have noted, your masters GPA and softs will have virtually no impact on your admissions. It's gonna be down to your LSAT and GPA, which at this point are likely to get you into high T2, low T1-type schools.

If you are planning on making a career out of it, it is quite silly to feel so rushed into going to school right away, especially if you can wait one year and give yourself a remarkably better shot at getting into a much better school, or at the very least get into the same schools with a lot of scholarship money.

I'd agree with taking the LSAT in December, or even waiting a year and taking it next June, so that you have time to do some proper prep work. I personally know a couple of 170/3.5s who, between the two of them, managed acceptances to Georgetown, Michigan, Northwestern, and good schools outside the T14 as well. Your cycle may not go that great, but if you could raise your score to the high 160s or better, you'd open a lot of doors that are closed to that 159. Obviously there are few times when a score increase wouldn't help someone's applications, but given your stated goal of breaking into the T20 I'd say you have to consider a retake.

Bildungsroman wrote:

Moomoo2u wrote:

Grizz wrote:

Moomoo2u wrote: you really should re-take the lsat because even with a 165 you would have a shot at maybe cornell/GULC with a master's and strong LOR's. Certainly a strong shot at T20-25

165? Nah brah. 165 is a dead zone and will almost assuredly NOT get Cornell/GULC with that UGPA. Want T20? You're gonna want like a 167/168 for a shot, and you definitely want to do even better than that.

Look Breh 25/75 for:

Washington U 162-168
GW 162-168

165 is probably median (too lazy to look it up) and with a high gpa and a master's you would probably be given a very small boost that would give you a fighting chance.

Probably right about Cornell/Gtown though bro

Except she doesn't have a high GPA. Look at these applicants who had a 3.5/165 and see where they were admitted:

http://lawschoolnumbers.com/rlm124
http://lawschoolnumbers.com/tron
http://lawschoolnumbers.com/MarquisInSpades
http://lawschoolnumbers.com/MattThiessen
http://lawschoolnumbers.com/rkb1989

for some reason i thought she had a 4 lol