Top Law Schools

I'm new to the forum, but have visited the site a few times for some pre-law advice. I was hoping that some of you may be able to assist me in deciding what schools I should be applying to. I have looked at lawschoolnumbers a few times, however there are very few URM splitters at the institutions I am considering applying to. If, by miracle, I was accepted into a Top 14 I would go to any one of them, however if I don't, I would like to stay in California since I am a resident. I also have strong ties to Michigan and would love to work on my JD in Ann Arbor if that opportunity was within my grasp. Unfortunately, my GPA is horrific, but I do have an upward trend in which I averaged 3.7+ my last four quarters. Here are my stats:

Attended a UC school (Top 50)
Majored in Political Science
URM: African American female
GPA: 3.35 (LSDAS 3.08)
LSAT: 168; retaking in Oct (have been pt in the 173-175 range)
Average softs: scholarship athlete, volunteered at the boys and girls club, soup kitchen, district attorney internship

Please help me put together a solid set of applications (reaches, safeties, best regional, etc.) I will have great letters of recommendations and I'm confident in writing the personal and "why X" statements. I just don't know if that will be enough to overlook my poor GPA. Obviously, Boalt, Stanford, USC and UCLA are out of the picture, but what about UCD, UCI, LMU, SD? One last thing, I will be applying in the 2012-2013 cycle because I'm travelling, volunteering for some organizations and working. Thank you in advance for your help!

ece90 wrote:I'm new to the forum, but have visited the site a few times for some pre-law advice. I was hoping that some of you may be able to assist me in deciding what schools I should be applying to. I have looked at lawschoolnumbers a few times, however there are very few URM splitters at the institutions I am considering applying to. If, by miracle, I was accepted into a Top 14 I would go to any one of them, however if I don't, I would like to stay in California since I am a resident. I also have strong ties to Michigan and would love to work on my JD in Ann Arbor if that opportunity was within my grasp. Unfortunately, my GPA is horrific, but I do have an upward trend in which I averaged 3.7+ my last four quarters. Here are my stats:

Attended a UC school (Top 50)
Majored in Political Science
URM: African American female
GPA: 3.35 (LSDAS 3.08)
LSAT: 168; retaking in Oct (have been pt in the 173-175 range)
Average softs: athlete, volunteered at the boys and girls club, soup kitchen, district attorney internship

Please help me put together a solid set of application (reaches, safeties, best regional, etc.) Obviously, Boalt, Stanford, USC and UCLA are out of the picture, but what about UCD, UCI, LMU, SD? One last thing, I will be applying in the 2012-2013 cycle because I'm travelling, volunteering for some organizations and working. Thank you in advance for your help!

You'll probably get into at least 1 top 14 school with your current stats. Probably not Boalt. If you ED you will definitely get one. Honestly, you shouldn't go to any California law school except Stanford regardless of in state tuition (and with your GPA it probably won't happen). Even with in state tuition the Cali schools are absurdly expensive, and leave you with very poor employment prospects because of the economy. Frankly, you should retake until you can get a 175 or so. That may allow you to get into HLS, but with a 3.08 it's going to be very difficult. Other than that, only attend a top 14 on a full ride; otherwise just leave law school alone. You do have a good shot at Michigan right now. If you retake and hit the 170s you can get a Darrow--that would be the second best realistic option (after Harvard).

Thanks Bruce Wanye for your response. So should I ED to Michigan then?

A 3.08 is on the very low end for the splitter acceptance...but I would definitely blanket from MVP down.

As far as EDing, I'd go for something lower than michigan.

ece90 wrote:Thanks Bruce Wanye for your response. So should I ED to Michigan then?

No you shouldn't because you'll probably get in, and then you won't get any scholarship money. The one thing I will say is that if you do decide that you have to ED somewhere, pick Michigan. They force their ED applicants to do their summer start program. Which is good because it gives you a longer period to adapt to 1L exams and the whole 1L experience. Giving you a better shot at learning the ropes of what it takes to get good grades. And I assure you, if you don't get good grades at Michigan you will be in a very precarious situation.

The legal economy (really who am I kidding the economy period) has been destroyed to such an extent that a school like Michigan just isn't what it used to be. Frankly, Michigan and it's peers (the non HYS top 14) are roughly equivalent to what USC, UCLA, and UTexas were back in 2007. What that means is that if you fall below median, you are in big trouble. That's a lot of pressure/risk when you are paying sticker. Retake, retake, retake. Do what you must to get a 173 and then apply RD to the top 14 including Harvard. Pray you get into Harvard, or at the least another lower top 14 for free or close to it. Things have gotten that bad. Good luck to you! Have confidence in your test taking abilities and do what it takes to get a 173 +.

BruceWayne wrote:

ece90 wrote:Thanks Bruce Wanye for your response. So should I ED to Michigan then?

No you shouldn't because you'll probably get in, and then you won't get any scholarship money. The one thing I will say is that if you do decide that you have to ED somewhere, pick Michigan. They force their ED applicants to do their summer start program. Which is good because it gives you a longer period to adapt to 1L exams and the whole 1L experience. Giving you a better shot at learning the ropes of what it takes to get good grades. And I assure you, if you don't get good grades at Michigan you will be in a very precarious situation.

The legal economy (really who am I kidding the economy period) has been destroyed to such an extent that a school like Michigan just isn't what it used to be. Frankly, Michigan and it's peers (the non HYS top 14) are roughly equivalent to what USC, UCLA, and UTexas were back in 2007. What that means is that if you fall below median, you are in big trouble. That's a lot of pressure/risk when you are paying sticker. Retake, retake, retake. Do what you must to get a 173 and then apply RD to the top 14 including Harvard. Pray you get into Harvard, or at the least another lower top 14 for free or close to it. Things have gotten that bad. Good luck to you! Have confidence in your test taking abilities and do what it takes to get a 173 +.

LSN does not support the easy acceptance to UMich.

If you get in, from my research, it will be out of luck with your current stats.

BruceWayne wrote:

ece90 wrote:Thanks Bruce Wanye for your response. So should I ED to Michigan then?

No you shouldn't because you'll probably get in, and then you won't get any scholarship money. The one thing I will say is that if you do decide that you have to ED somewhere, pick Michigan. They force their ED applicants to do their summer start program. Which is good because it gives you a longer period to adapt to 1L exams and the whole 1L experience. Giving you a better shot at learning the ropes of what it takes to get good grades. And I assure you, if you don't get good grades at Michigan you will be in a very precarious situation.

The legal economy (really who am I kidding the economy period) has been destroyed to such an extent that a school like Michigan just isn't what it used to be. Frankly, Michigan and it's peers (the non HYS top 14) are roughly equivalent to what USC, UCLA, and UTexas were back in 2007. What that means is that if you fall below median, you are in big trouble. That's a lot of pressure/risk when you are paying sticker. Retake, retake, retake. Do what you must to get a 173 and then apply RD to the top 14 including Harvard. Pray you get into Harvard, or at the least another lower top 14 for free or close to it. Things have gotten that bad. Good luck to you! Have confidence in your test taking abilities and do what it takes to get a 173 +.

disagree - michigan is a great school, and worth 60k-80k more than ucla/usc.

1) She is a URM, so LSN won't be terribly useful. Hard to see Michigan turning down an AA above 3.0 with a 168, but it's possible.

2) Bruce Wayne was saying Michigan is where USC/UCLA were in 2007, not now. USC and UCLA aren't where they were in 2007, ergo, Michigan is still ahead of USC/UCLA.

Thank you all for your responses. I'm pretty frustrated with my GPA, but there's nothing I can do about it now. I forgot to mention that money/tuition is not a major factor - I may have to take out small loans, but if I have to pay sticker, luckily a majority of it will be covered by my parents. Should this change the way I look at schools? I would like to practice in california and heard that ucla/usc are strong regional schools for Southern Cali? Also, if I get a 170-173 next time around, should I blanket the T14? Thanks again!

ece90 wrote:Thank you all for your responses. I'm pretty frustrated with my GPA, but there's nothing I can do about it now. I forgot to mention that money/tuition is not a major factor - I may have to take out small loans, but if I have to pay sticker, luckily a majority of it will be covered by my parents. Should this change the way I look at schools? I would like to practice in california and heard that ucla/usc are strong regional schools for Southern Cali? Also, if I get a 170-173 next time around, should I blanket the T14? Thanks again!

If you can break 170 I'd say you're almost a lock on every school you listed.

AA female with those #'s is probably an in at Mich and lower T14 (obviously depending on what you focus on and what essays you write). I might even try CCN if you add an addendum about your low GPA (especially if you have 4 semesters of 3.7 gpa to prove it).

BruceWayne wrote:

ece90 wrote:Thanks Bruce Wanye for your response. So should I ED to Michigan then?

No you shouldn't because you'll probably get in, and then you won't get any scholarship money. The one thing I will say is that if you do decide that you have to ED somewhere, pick Michigan. They force their ED applicants to do their summer start program. Which is good because it gives you a longer period to adapt to 1L exams and the whole 1L experience. Giving you a better shot at learning the ropes of what it takes to get good grades. And I assure you, if you don't get good grades at Michigan you will be in a very precarious situation.

The legal economy (really who am I kidding the economy period) has been destroyed to such an extent that a school like Michigan just isn't what it used to be. Frankly, Michigan and it's peers (the non HYS top 14) are roughly equivalent to what USC, UCLA, and UTexas were back in 2007. What that means is that if you fall below median, you are in big trouble. That's a lot of pressure/risk when you are paying sticker. Retake, retake, retake. Do what you must to get a 173 and then apply RD to the top 14 including Harvard. Pray you get into Harvard, or at the least another lower top 14 for free or close to it. Things have gotten that bad. Good luck to you! Have confidence in your test taking abilities and do what it takes to get a 173 +.

Bolded is wrong. Michigan gives merit and need based aid to ED admits.

scoring higher on the oct test will definitely help, although i think pretty much everyone itt is being overly pessimistic (at least regarding admission chances). there's also a lot of hating on california schools, which i think is overstated but not completely unfounded.

the fact that your parents can pay for most of law school drastically changes how you can approach admissions. scholarships are always great to have, but some of the risk you take on is substantially mitigated if you're not in deep debt afterward.

anyways, you do have a shot a cal, ucla, usc, and some of the T14 as is. a higher score obviously helps those chances, perhaps enough to put you in contention at HYS. if you can afford it there isn't much harm in applying, regardless of whether you score higher or not.

best of luck

While there are no definites in this crazy game, a 180 on October should give the OP at least a somewhat decent chance at Thomas Jefferson:

How to solve an inference question on a law school forum.

So I put a list together of schools I'll be applying to next cycle. What are my chances with my current stats and what are my chances if I score a 170+?

Michigan
Columbia
NYU
Chicago
Penn
Boalt
UVA
Duke
NU
Georgetown
GW
UCLA
USC
UCD
UCI
Fordham
Boston U
Notre Dame
Illinois

Should I even both with HYS?

lop some off the bottom and add HYS if you can drop another $250 (why not?)

Please apply to HYS!