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With the applicant pool expected to be slightly less competitive this cycle (maybe school accepting more splitters to try and keep medians), what do you think my best case scenario would be? Looking for the best possible school I can get into, location isn't a huge factor. No FT WE, assorted impressive internship experience. Other average to above average softs (ie. Organization leadership positions with broad experiences).

So bottom-line, chance at better than LSN for this cycle's outcome, or probably still basically the same?

No help?

It is hard to say until you see just how many people actually apply this year. I would say you should expect your numbers to lead to similar outcomes you are seeing now. Schools are always trying to raise their medians and though the pool may get smaller schools just may get more selective. You still have a great LSAT so you should be fine but plan to apply to splitter friendly schools as your targets

Blanket the T14 sans YHS unless you want to take a shot there. Also, consider taking out NU due to their strong preference for at least two years of T14 work. I don't think an ED is necessary, but others may agree. You should be able to land somewhere, although $$$ may be tough to come by because of your GPA. I wouldn't necessarily expect any different results this cycle than any other one. Splitters are always tough to predict. Congrats on a good score and good luck this cycle.

The top 6 law schools might be unrealistic based on your GPA & its recency.
Virginia ED, Penn, Duke & Northwestern are probably your highest ranked possibilities.

Thanks for the input. What do you think my chances are looking like at MVP down? Duke? Also, I like schools like Vandy, UCLA/USC although ranked lower may be tougher to crack with my GPA but I really don't know. No real interest in going to school in NY and CCN is most likely zero chance anyway.

CanadianWolf wrote:The top 6 law schools might be unrealistic based on your GPA & its recency.
Virginia ED, Penn, Duke & Northwestern are probably your highest ranked possibilities.

I don't think it's even worth applying to Northwestern. DCG are probably his best shots, with maybe a little bit of money. I have a feeling he will be weighing sticker at a lower T14 versus a solid scholarship from a T20.

FeelTheHeat wrote:

CanadianWolf wrote:The top 6 law schools might be unrealistic based on your GPA & its recency.
Virginia ED, Penn, Duke & Northwestern are probably your highest ranked possibilities.

I don't think it's even worth applying to Northwestern. DCG are probably his best shots, with maybe a little bit of money. I have a feeling he will be weighing sticker at a lower T14 versus a solid scholarship from a T20.

My thoughts too. Leaning toward the T14 without big money right now but will obviously have to see how it plays out. You think I have a good shot at Duke? With money? Wasn't sure what they're GPA cutoff is. Id like to think my PS and softs could only be a slight plus or neutral at worst.

ArtVandalay wrote:

FeelTheHeat wrote:

CanadianWolf wrote:The top 6 law schools might be unrealistic based on your GPA & its recency.
Virginia ED, Penn, Duke & Northwestern are probably your highest ranked possibilities.

I don't think it's even worth applying to Northwestern. DCG are probably his best shots, with maybe a little bit of money. I have a feeling he will be weighing sticker at a lower T14 versus a solid scholarship from a T20.

My thoughts too. Leaning toward the T14 without big money right now but will obviously have to see how it plays out. You think I have a good shot at Duke? With money? Wasn't sure what they're GPA cutoff is. Id like to think my PS and softs could only be a slight plus or neutral at worst.

TBH, I wouldn't count too much on your softs either way. Not to disparage them, but for the most part they will come across as neutral unless you have some significant achievements/experience (curing diseases, military work, extensive FT work experience, etc.) I think you've got a pretty good grasp on the situation now. Get the applications in as early as possible, enjoy some drinks, and cross your fingers. According to LSN, Duke is a bit of a longshot, but still doable. I'm thinking USC/UCLA/Vandy, or WUSTL with a good chunk of change.

OP: many of the poster's here are being a little too optimistic

Your lower T14 chances are...

MP: Out (ED or RD)
V: In w/ ED; out/WL RD
D: Out/WL (ED or RD)
C: WL
G: In w/ ED; in/WL RD

No one with your numbers was admitted before being WL at Duke this past cycle (RD or ED) according to LSN. Duke appears to be a bit of a GPA stickler and does not view splitters all that favorably in most situations.

Best of luck with your cycle.

lawyerwannabe wrote:OP: many of the poster's here are being a little too optimistic

Your lower T14 chances are...

MP: Out (ED or RD)
V: In w/ ED; out/WL RD
D: Out/WL (ED or RD)
C: WL
G: In w/ ED; in/WL RD

No one with your numbers was admitted before being WL at Duke this past cycle (RD or ED) according to LSN. Duke appears to be a bit of a GPA stickler and does not view splitters all that favorably in most situations.

Best of luck with your cycle.

I would agree except that:

1) I don't think MP are auto-ding's as you say. M really does seem to be reasonably holistic, and with an ED and a good Why M it's certainly a possibility. People with lower numbers were in this year. Also P let in quite a few 170/3.2/3X's this year, so I don't see why a 171/3.19 would be considered an auto-ding knowing that.

2) Cornell is really a toss-up, their approach to splitters follows no clear line from year to year, so it really could be anything, but I wouldn't say an assured WL.

3) Highly doubt GULC is anything but an acceptance with his numbers. Don't want to be overly confident, but with a less competitive cycle expected, I think it's a pretty good chance. Only two people on LSN this cycle with a 171 between 3 and 3.35 weren't let in. Both applied mid December. And do not waste an ED on GULC with those numbers.

Likely at Duke. Northwestern also offers a strong possibility due to non-full time work experience & LSAT. Michigan is not as likely due to low GPA.

CanadianWolf wrote:Likely at Duke. Northwestern also offers a strong possibility due to non-full time work experience & LSAT. Michigan is not as likely due to low GPA.

This was a little confusing? And thanks for all the input. What about chances/$ at UCLA, USC, and Vandy?

Out at HYSCCNBP

Shot at Michigan, maybe UVA, Cornell

WL/Out at Duke, GULC, NW, UCLA

Probably in at GW, Illinois

In with $$ at WUSTL.

Full ride at IU-B

ArtVandalay wrote:

CanadianWolf wrote:Likely at Duke. Northwestern also offers a strong possibility due to non-full time work experience & LSAT. Michigan is not as likely due to low GPA.

This was a little confusing? And thanks for all the input. What about chances/$ at UCLA, USC, and Vandy?

Vandy, USC, and UCLA all like higher GPAs so it's an uphill battle for you.

Flips88 wrote:Out at HYSCCNBP

Shot at Michigan, maybe UVA, Cornell

WL/Out at Duke, GULC, NW, UCLA

Probably in at GW, Illinois

In with $$ at WUSTL.

Full ride at IU-B

You really think OUT at GULC? and I know its commonly said ED to UVA and I'll know in 2 weeks, but I;m just not sure yet. Still thinking and might wind up trying that (I know it's no guarantee). But a chance at Mich is very appealing and $$ at WUSTL and ILL. But I think since my only chance at UVA is the ED I may have to use it and just go for it

ArtVandalay wrote:

Flips88 wrote:Out at HYSCCNBP

Shot at Michigan, maybe UVA, Cornell

WL/Out at Duke, GULC, NW, UCLA

Probably in at GW, Illinois

In with $$ at WUSTL.

Full ride at IU-B

You really think OUT at GULC? and I know its commonly said ED to UVA and I'll know in 2 weeks, but I;m just not sure yet. Still thinking and might wind up trying that (I know it's no guarantee). But a chance at Mich is very appealing and $$ at WUSTL and ILL. But I think since my only chance at UVA is the ED I may have to use it and just go for it

I know a girl that went WL->In after lots of LOCIs with a 171/3.6. I have to think someone with a significantly lower GPA will have a tougher time

Like some one said...

Decent shot at Mich, Cornell, GULC, Northwestern with WE
Good shot at Virginia with ED, out/WL if not (if you aren't a resident)
I would say out/WL at duke. Like an above poster no one in recent history has got in not off the WL with those numbers. They seem to have a soft floor around 3.6 and a hard floor around 3.5 for RD. They accepted some spiltters (like myself) this year, but only off the WL. Check LSN.

Flips88 wrote:

ArtVandalay wrote:

Flips88 wrote:Out at HYSCCNBP

Shot at Michigan, maybe UVA, Cornell

WL/Out at Duke, GULC, NW, UCLA

Probably in at GW, Illinois

In with $$ at WUSTL.

Full ride at IU-B

You really think OUT at GULC? and I know its commonly said ED to UVA and I'll know in 2 weeks, but I;m just not sure yet. Still thinking and might wind up trying that (I know it's no guarantee). But a chance at Mich is very appealing and $$ at WUSTL and ILL. But I think since my only chance at UVA is the ED I may have to use it and just go for it

I know a girl that went WL->In after lots of LOCIs with a 171/3.6. I have to think someone with a significantly lower GPA will have a tougher time

I don't think its a guarantee, but it has been widely said and seen that someone with an LSAT at 171 has a very good shot of getting in even with 1 GPA close to 3.0. One girl that got WLed first doesn't really mean that since I have a lower GPA and same LSAT that I am therefore out. I am below median GPA but above median LSAT. So could go either way. She could have been WLed as a YP to see if she really wanted to go there. at least 3 people on LSN got GULC with 3.1 or lower and a 171. I think 1 person (who got accepted to Duke, Mich, others) got WLed with a 3.6 171. No one got rejected with at least those numbers

I don't think you are getting t14 RD. Maybe GULC.

The less competitive applicant pool has helped splitters vs. two or three cycles past, but it's been more in terms of scholarship money given from splitter friendly schools in the 20-50 range.

ArtVandalay wrote:

Flips88 wrote:Out at HYSCCNBP

Shot at Michigan, maybe UVA, Cornell

WL/Out at Duke, GULC, NW, UCLA

Probably in at GW, Illinois

In with $$ at WUSTL.

Full ride at IU-B

You really think OUT at GULC? and I know its commonly said ED to UVA and I'll know in 2 weeks, but I;m just not sure yet. Still thinking and might wind up trying that (I know it's no guarantee). But a chance at Mich is very appealing and $$ at WUSTL and ILL. But I think since my only chance at UVA is the ED I may have to use it and just go for it

UVA ED is your best shot (by far) in the T14. You might also have a very, very small shot at Michigan (and Cornell, if that's your thing). And you certainly stand a good chance at GULC with ED. Otherwise, Penn is a lost cause without an ED and awesome softs; Northwestern ain't happening without work experience; and Duke is a no-go with that GPA.

WUSTL (and the other splitter-friendly Midwestern schools) will throw money at you. Vandy might let you in. Texas won't. UCLA and USC are gonna be uphill battles.

ArtVandalay wrote: I don't think its a guarantee, but it has been widely said and seen that someone with an LSAT at 171 has a very good shot of getting in even with 1 GPA close to 3.0. One girl that got WLed first doesn't really mean that since I have a lower GPA and same LSAT that I am therefore out. I am below median GPA but above median LSAT. So could go either way. She could have been WLed as a YP to see if she really wanted to go there. at least 3 people on LSN got GULC with 3.1 or lower and a 171. I think 1 person (who got accepted to Duke, Mich, others) got WLed with a 3.6 171. No one got rejected with at least those numbers

I think you'll realistically get a WL from GULC. But GULC tiers their wait list into 3 categories: Special preferred, preferred, regular. After going through their whole WL process, I can't tell you with certainty if the distinctions actually mean anything. So you may find yourself on the regular or preferred WL and it'll take lots of hustle but you could get in. I still think a straight acceptance is unlikely

beachbum wrote:

ArtVandalay wrote:

Flips88 wrote:Out at HYSCCNBP

Shot at Michigan, maybe UVA, Cornell

WL/Out at Duke, GULC, NW, UCLA

Probably in at GW, Illinois

In with $$ at WUSTL.

Full ride at IU-B

You really think OUT at GULC? and I know its commonly said ED to UVA and I'll know in 2 weeks, but I;m just not sure yet. Still thinking and might wind up trying that (I know it's no guarantee). But a chance at Mich is very appealing and $$ at WUSTL and ILL. But I think since my only chance at UVA is the ED I may have to use it and just go for it

UVA ED is your best shot (by far) in the T14. You might also have a very, very small shot at Michigan (and Cornell, if that's your thing). And you certainly stand a good chance at GULC with ED. Otherwise, Penn is a lost cause without an ED and awesome softs; Northwestern ain't happening without work experience; and Duke is a no-go with that GPA.

WUSTL (and the other splitter-friendly Midwestern schools) will throw money at you. Vandy might let you in. Texas won't. UCLA and USC are gonna be uphill battles.

Thanks. This is basically what I have come to terms with, but a lot of these good chance schools are still amazing. I have some connections to the LA area and somewhat to people in the USC admissions office which I'm not sure if it would have any effect. I will probably wind up EDing to UVA, but if I'm not set on it might try an ED to Mich. Would be happy with Vandy as well but would be a tough choice over WUSTL with about a half scholly IMO

Flips88 wrote:

ArtVandalay wrote: I don't think its a guarantee, but it has been widely said and seen that someone with an LSAT at 171 has a very good shot of getting in even with 1 GPA close to 3.0. One girl that got WLed first doesn't really mean that since I have a lower GPA and same LSAT that I am therefore out. I am below median GPA but above median LSAT. So could go either way. She could have been WLed as a YP to see if she really wanted to go there. at least 3 people on LSN got GULC with 3.1 or lower and a 171. I think 1 person (who got accepted to Duke, Mich, others) got WLed with a 3.6 171. No one got rejected with at least those numbers

I think you'll realistically get a WL from GULC. But GULC tiers their wait list into 3 categories: Special preferred, preferred, regular. After going through their whole WL process, I can't tell you with certainty if the distinctions actually mean anything. So you may find yourself on the regular or preferred WL and it'll take lots of hustle but you could get in. I still think a straight acceptance is unlikely

I agree that straigh acceptance is not probable, but still possible. Regardless I might not even apply there so it doesn't even matter haha. But If not accepted anywhere higher and rejected UVA ED it would be a different story. I might consider a T20-25 school with $$ over GULC at sticker