Top Law Schools

Update from October LSAT
took the advice from this thread and went for a retake.
Was shooting for at least a 165 but failed and ended up with a 162
A freaking 162!
Now I really don't have a clue on what to expect come app time.
Had a bunch of input in this thread before so I hope I could get the same results.
Also uploaded my transcripts and see my GPA decreased to a 3.4

Help Me Out TLS!


Old OP
3.5 159 Black Male
Tier 1 Public School Undergrad
meh softs- loads of social justice work
2 LOR from professors that know me well and are pretty fond of me

My goal is a great scholarship rather than a highly ranked school (both would obviously be ideal).
Interested in either Sports/Entertainment law or Civil Rights law

I'm usually not one to take this stance, but if you hated studying for the LSAT that much then yuo should reconsider your committment to law school. Although the LSAT isn't really similiar to a law school exam, they are very similar in terms of importance. Both have huge iimplications on your job prospects and they're both tests that are essentially winner take all (meaning that you are evaluated entirely on your end score, not the steps that got you there like your GPA). Further the job prospects for JD's are horrible right now, check out the New York Times.

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/ ... -by-state/


I'm not saying this to scare you; I'm saying it to motivate you. You need to suck it up and study for a retake like your life depends on it--because your job life does. I know that everyone can't get a sky high LSAT score, but you said you pulled a 162 once in a prep test and you got a 159 on the real thing. So going up to a 164 is not unrealistic. Save up your money and take a Powerscore prep course, then study your butt off! If you get a 164 you will get big scholarships from good schools (top 30). Good luck from one AA male to another.

BruceWayne wrote:I'm usually not one to take this stance, but if you hated studying for the LSAT that much then yuo should reconsider your committment to law school. Although the LSAT isn't really similiar to a law school exam, they are very similar in terms of importance. Both have huge iimplications on your job prospects and they're both tests that are essentially winner take all (meaning that you are evaluated entirely on your end score, not the steps that got you there like your GPA). Further the job prospects for JD's are horrible right now, check out the New York Times.

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/ ... -by-state/


I'm not saying this to scare you; I'm saying it to motivate you. You need to suck it up and study for a retake like your life depends on it--because your job life does. I know that everyone can't get a sky high LSAT score, but you said you pulled a 162 once in a prep test and you got a 159 on the real thing. So going up to a 164 is not unrealistic. Save up your money and take a Powerscore prep course, then study your butt off! If you get a 164 you will get big scholarships from good schools (top 30). Good luck from one AA male to another.

The thing is, wouldnt I need to get a 169 since law schools average each test so that would be the only way to get a 164.

Quan292 wrote:

BruceWayne wrote:I'm usually not one to take this stance, but if you hated studying for the LSAT that much then yuo should reconsider your committment to law school. Although the LSAT isn't really similiar to a law school exam, they are very similar in terms of importance. Both have huge iimplications on your job prospects and they're both tests that are essentially winner take all (meaning that you are evaluated entirely on your end score, not the steps that got you there like your GPA). Further the job prospects for JD's are horrible right now, check out the New York Times.

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/ ... -by-state/


I'm not saying this to scare you; I'm saying it to motivate you. You need to suck it up and study for a retake like your life depends on it--because your job life does. I know that everyone can't get a sky high LSAT score, but you said you pulled a 162 once in a prep test and you got a 159 on the real thing. So going up to a 164 is not unrealistic. Save up your money and take a Powerscore prep course, then study your butt off! If you get a 164 you will get big scholarships from good schools (top 30). Good luck from one AA male to another.

The thing is, wouldnt I need to get a 169 since law schools average each test so that would be the only way to get a 164.

No. They won't average your score, regardless of what their website says. Trust me, I know from experience.

BruceWayne wrote:

Quan292 wrote:

BruceWayne wrote:I'm usually not one to take this stance, but if you hated studying for the LSAT that much then yuo should reconsider your committment to law school. Although the LSAT isn't really similiar to a law school exam, they are very similar in terms of importance. Both have huge iimplications on your job prospects and they're both tests that are essentially winner take all (meaning that you are evaluated entirely on your end score, not the steps that got you there like your GPA). Further the job prospects for JD's are horrible right now, check out the New York Times.

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/ ... -by-state/


I'm not saying this to scare you; I'm saying it to motivate you. You need to suck it up and study for a retake like your life depends on it--because your job life does. I know that everyone can't get a sky high LSAT score, but you said you pulled a 162 once in a prep test and you got a 159 on the real thing. So going up to a 164 is not unrealistic. Save up your money and take a Powerscore prep course, then study your butt off! If you get a 164 you will get big scholarships from good schools (top 30). Good luck from one AA male to another.

The thing is, wouldnt I need to get a 169 since law schools average each test so that would be the only way to get a 164.

No. They won't average your score, regardless of what their website says. Trust me, I know from experience.

How much of a scholly increase do you see with a 3-5 point increase (which I think is a likely range) over applying early.

What schools do you guys think I will get into with a 3.5 and 159? On the east coast specifically.

Quan292 wrote:What schools do you guys think I will get into with a 3.5 and 159? On the east coast specifically.

Probably a few, with AA more than you'd expect, but none worth sticker probably. Bruce is right, they wont average, if you think that you could get a 165, you could be in at Vandy, gtown, cornell, texas etc. which are much better investments. Also, I wouldnt do the class, just buy the Powerscore LG and LR Bibles and work through as many PTs as you can find.

Law Sauce wrote:

Quan292 wrote:What schools do you guys think I will get into with a 3.5 and 159? On the east coast specifically.

Probably a few, with AA more than you'd expect, but none worth sticker probably. Bruce is right, they wont average, if you think that you could get a 165, you could be in at Vandy, gtown, cornell, texas etc. which are much better investments. Also, I wouldnt do the class, just buy the Powerscore LG and LR Bibles and work through as many PTs as you can find.

Yea thats what I'm thinking but if I get my score up to 165 which schools do you think I can get a significant scholarship from?

Quan292 wrote:Yea thats what I'm thinking but if I get my score up to 165 which schools do you think I can get a significant scholarship from?

You'll get significant scholarships from non top 14 schools. You'll get some (but much harder to predict which ones) from top 14 schools. You'll probably get accepted to one of Harvard/Stanford. You'll definitely get one of Chicago or Columbia.

BruceWayne wrote:

Quan292 wrote:Yea thats what I'm thinking but if I get my score up to 165 which schools do you think I can get a significant scholarship from?

You'll get significant scholarships from non top 14 schools. You'll get some (but much harder to predict which ones) from top 14 schools. You'll probably get accepted to one of Harvard/Stanford. You'll definitely get one of Chicago or Columbia.

This is possible, but probably a little optimistic. A random t6 or t14 likely would pick you up though.

One of my friends is an AA male, straight out of undergrad with a 3.5/157 and is going to Duke law in the fall with a $52k scholarship (over three years). So even now, its possible for you to have some decent options.

Law Sauce wrote:

BruceWayne wrote:

Quan292 wrote:Yea thats what I'm thinking but if I get my score up to 165 which schools do you think I can get a significant scholarship from?

You'll get significant scholarships from non top 14 schools. You'll get some (but much harder to predict which ones) from top 14 schools. You'll probably get accepted to one of Harvard/Stanford. You'll definitely get one of Chicago or Columbia.

This is possible, but probably a little optimistic. A random t6 or t14 likely would pick you up though.

Trust me it's not optimistic at all. Most of the URMs at HYS have these sort of numbers. You just don't have many AA males with 3.8 GPAs and 170 LSATs running around. So the magic numbers for us become 3.5+ GPA and 160+ LSAT. You can get top 14 with 3.1/2 and 164 as an AA male.

BruceWayne wrote:

Law Sauce wrote:

BruceWayne wrote:

Quan292 wrote:Yea thats what I'm thinking but if I get my score up to 165 which schools do you think I can get a significant scholarship from?

You'll get significant scholarships from non top 14 schools. You'll get some (but much harder to predict which ones) from top 14 schools. You'll probably get accepted to one of Harvard/Stanford. You'll definitely get one of Chicago or Columbia.

This is possible, but probably a little optimistic. A random t6 or t14 likely would pick you up though.

Trust me it's not optimistic at all. Most of the URMs at HYS have these sort of numbers. You just don't have many AA males with 3.8 GPAs and 170 LSATs running around. So the magic numbers for us become 3.5+ GPA and 160+ LSAT. You can get top 14 with 3.1/2 and 164 as an AA male.

Ok, I didnt realize that, I defer to you.

BruceWayne wrote:

Law Sauce wrote:

BruceWayne wrote:

Quan292 wrote:Yea thats what I'm thinking but if I get my score up to 165 which schools do you think I can get a significant scholarship from?

You'll get significant scholarships from non top 14 schools. You'll get some (but much harder to predict which ones) from top 14 schools. You'll probably get accepted to one of Harvard/Stanford. You'll definitely get one of Chicago or Columbia.

This is possible, but probably a little optimistic. A random t6 or t14 likely would pick you up though.

Trust me it's not optimistic at all. Most of the URMs at HYS have these sort of numbers. You just don't have many AA males with 3.8 GPAs and 170 LSATs running around. So the magic numbers for us become 3.5+ GPA and 160+ LSAT. You can get top 14 with 3.1/2 and 164 as an AA male.

As an AA male with a 3.2 and a 162 who's sitting for the October re-take, I pray this is true. Applied 2/16 last cycle and am waitlisted at Duke, Michigan, Georgetown, and Northwestern. With a 3.5 I'm pretty sure I'd be in HYS if I could pull a few more points. With my GPA, I think I'll need 170 to have a shot. Good luck!

miracle2011 wrote:One of my friends is an AA male, straight out of undergrad with a 3.5/157 and is going to Duke law in the fall with a $52k scholarship (over three years). So even now, its possible for you to have some decent options.

Wow thats a pretty good scholarship for those numbers. I hate duke tho so I don't think I could force myself to go to their school for 3 years but im happy to see there is some money even for people without great numbers. Hopefully I can get my retake score high enough to get some big scholarship $.

egirarde wrote:As an AA male with a 3.2 and a 162 who's sitting for the October re-take, I pray this is true. Applied 2/16 last cycle and am waitlisted at Duke, Michigan, Georgetown, and Northwestern. With a 3.5 I'm pretty sure I'd be in HYS if I could pull a few more points. With my GPA, I think I'll need 170 to have a shot. Good luck!

Damn man you applied ridiculously late--there's that stereotype they have about us again! FWIW I had similiar numbers and ended up top 10.

BruceWayne wrote:

Law Sauce wrote:

BruceWayne wrote:

Quan292 wrote:Yea thats what I'm thinking but if I get my score up to 165 which schools do you think I can get a significant scholarship from?

You'll get significant scholarships from non top 14 schools. You'll get some (but much harder to predict which ones) from top 14 schools. You'll probably get accepted to one of Harvard/Stanford. You'll definitely get one of Chicago or Columbia.

This is possible, but probably a little optimistic. A random t6 or t14 likely would pick you up though.

Trust me it's not optimistic at all. Most of the URMs at HYS have these sort of numbers. You just don't have many AA males with 3.8 GPAs and 170 LSATs running around. So the magic numbers for us become 3.5+ GPA and 160+ LSAT. You can get top 14 with 3.1/2 and 164 as an AA male.

What are you talking about? most of the URMs? I'm going to Harvard as a URM and I talk to other URMs attending Harvard as well and I don't know any with a GPA that low. Not saying there are none but I know for sure not most are running around with a 3.5/160. I know two people on this site (1 AA male and the other a MA female) who have numbers that blow those away and they are still on the waitlist. I think you are being too optimistic.

edit: Just checked out LSN. There are three people (2 URMs) on LSN with sub 3.5 GPA's accepted to Harvard. The URM's have extremely high LSAT scores. One has a 172 LSAT the other has a 179. Not exactly a 160.

Was set on retaking but now i'm worried. my diagnostic was a 14d so I already have made a 17 point jump Spoke to a friend who said that most people get at most 15 points higher from cold to real test. Also some sat calcuator thing said my lsat score is pretty much on the same path as my sat. Also my undergrad pre-law office advises against retakes. still leaning toward retake but im wondering if these worries are valid?

Quan292 wrote:Was set on retaking but now i'm worried. my diagnostic was a 14d so I already have made a 17 point jump Spoke to a friend who said that most people get at most 15 points higher from cold to real test. Also some sat calcuator thing said my lsat score is pretty much on the same path as my sat. Also my undergrad pre-law office advises against retakes. still leaning toward retake but im wondering if these worries are valid?

Even if you score worse it isn't going to hurt you. You should retake in an attempt to do better since you have nothing to lose. Either you score better and you have a better application or you score worse and your application was just the same as before.

an actual past cycle if it helps

http://www.lawschoolnumbers.com/fl0w

for lazy people, 3.3 161 (on retake). Near full ride at wustl.
but i went to undergrad there and had 5yrs work experience.. so i dunno.

my feeling is a 165 would make you GOLDEN. That's the score I wanted, but when I saw my full ride at wustl i just took it.

fl0w wrote:an actual past cycle if it helps

http://www.lawschoolnumbers.com/fl0w

for lazy people, 3.3 161 (on retake). Near full ride at wustl.
but i went to undergrad there and had 5yrs work experience.. so i dunno.

my feeling is a 165 would make you GOLDEN. That's the score I wanted, but when I saw my full ride at wustl i just took it.

I definitely read your cycle before by lurking LSN. Didn't know you were a retake tho. I def would have made the same decision as you. I always wondered what did the Americas Best Dance Crew reference meant? Were you with one of the crews on the show?

bk187 wrote: Even if you score worse it isn't going to hurt you. You should retake in an attempt to do better since you have nothing to lose. Either you score better and you have a better application or you score worse and your application was just the same as before.

I think you're right. It just seems like everyone in this world think i shouldnt retake besides this site.

Quan292 wrote:

bk187 wrote: Even if you score worse it isn't going to hurt you. You should retake in an attempt to do better since you have nothing to lose. Either you score better and you have a better application or you score worse and your application was just the same as before.

I think you're right. It just seems like everyone in this world think i shouldnt retake besides this site.

Lay perceptions of law schools and the law school application process tend to be wrong.

bk187 wrote:

Quan292 wrote:

bk187 wrote: Even if you score worse it isn't going to hurt you. You should retake in an attempt to do better since you have nothing to lose. Either you score better and you have a better application or you score worse and your application was just the same as before.

I think you're right. It just seems like everyone in this world think i shouldnt retake besides this site.

Lay perceptions of law schools and the law school application process tend to be wrong.

This. People might think you're crazy but most of them don't have a clue. Retake, shoot for the T-14. Good luck.

According to LSN, a 159 might put you in the running at some t-14.

I disagree about retaking. You're an AA male.

Studying for the LSAT sucks for everyone. Who actually enjoyed it? Nobody likes studying in general. I think the point they're making is you should suck it up, but I think a 159 might be enough for some great schools.