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Please help me out of what my chances are. I will be applying this fall, and not factoring in a potential retake and these are my numbers, what are my chances? Please include any info on whether you think an ED would change the outcome and chances of $$. Also add in any school you think I'm missing (No WE outside of multiple intensive summer internships at top company), as of right now location is not the deciding factor. Thanks I appreciate it.

UPenn
Michigan
Virginia
Duke
Cornell
Georgetown
UCLA
USC
Vandy
WUSTL
ILL
MINN
ND

BTW, I have checked through a lot of these and the lawschoolpredictor, I just have heard that it is not that accurate for splitters so looking for some more input and ideas. Thanks again.

EDITED: to remove Chicago ED, because it is almost a 0% chance ha

You are wasting your ED at Chicago since there is little chance of you getting in there. You are probably out at everything above Cornell and your chances go from close to zero to more substantial at 13-20 range schools. I would probably ED to GULC or Cornell if you are shooting for T14, but it will be at sticker. I think you are definitely good for WUSTL.

I would also kill UCLA unless you get a fee waiver, they probably won't bite on that GPA.

Are you a URM? If so all of ^ is off.

It is a good thing you cleverly hid your true GPA.

I almost had your identity narrowed down.

flcath wrote:It is a good thing you cleverly hid your true GPA.

I almost had your identity narrowed down.

I'm still in UG and haven't computed my official GPA, when I apply and most likely by the time I'm accepted/rejected my GPA will be anywhere from 3.15 to 3.3

bdubs wrote:You are wasting your ED at Chicago since there is little chance of you getting in there. You are probably out at everything above Cornell and your chances go from close to zero to more substantial at 13-20 range schools. I would probably ED to GULC or Cornell if you are shooting for T14, but it will be at sticker. I think you are definitely good for WUSTL.

I would also kill UCLA unless you get a fee waiver, they probably won't bite on that GPA.

Are you a URM? If so all of ^ is off.

There is no ED at Cornell, but is EA which I don't think gives any advantage really. But you don't think I have a shot at UVA or Michigan with ED?

splitster1221 wrote:

bdubs wrote:You are wasting your ED at Chicago since there is little chance of you getting in there. You are probably out at everything above Cornell and your chances go from close to zero to more substantial at 13-20 range schools. I would probably ED to GULC or Cornell if you are shooting for T14, but it will be at sticker. I think you are definitely good for WUSTL.

I would also kill UCLA unless you get a fee waiver, they probably won't bite on that GPA.

Are you a URM? If so all of ^ is off.

There is no ED at Cornell, but is EA which I don't think gives any advantage really. But you don't think I have a shot at UVA or Michigan with ED?

Yeah I forgot about the non-binding EA at Cornell. You are pushing on GPA floors at Michigan with a 3.1-3.3 LSAC GPA and your 170 is not high enough above median to make up for it. Same goes with UVA (where the median is 170 and includes all of the in state kids), although they seem more accepting of low GPAs the 170 just wont cut it.

I agree that Chicago ED is probably misplaced. If you want T-14, your best bet (assuming this cycle's results are applicable in fall) is an ED to UVA as soon as apps become available. Since it's a quick 14 day turnaround, if you don't get it, you can always try an ed elsewhere.

As far as the rest of the cycle
I think probably WL/Out at:
Chicago
Penn
Mich
UVa (if RD)
Duke
Cornell
UCLA
GULC probably
USC probably

Otherwise, you'll most likely get $ at WUSTL and some other T20s & T30s. Midwestern schools are typically friendly to splitters while West Coast schools are not. Splitter cycles are difficult to predict so be prepared to apply broadly. Look at http://www.lawschoolnumbers.com to do some research.

Yeah I forgot about the non-binding EA at Cornell. You are pushing on GPA floors at Michigan with a 3.1-3.3 LSAC GPA and your 170 is not high enough above median to make up for it. Same goes with UVA (where the median is 170 and includes all of the in state kids), although they seem more accepting of low GPAs the 170 just wont cut it.[/quote]

I've read a lot on this site that above a 3.0 and 170+ is almost guaranteed for UVA with ED

splitster1221 wrote:

flcath wrote:It is a good thing you cleverly hid your true GPA.

I almost had your identity narrowed down.

I'm still in UG and haven't computed my official GPA, when I apply and most likely by the time I'm accepted/rejected my GPA will be anywhere from 3.15 to 3.3

I gotcha man.

FWIW, I was in basically the same position as you (within your gpa range, and a higher LSAT), and I don't think you'd be thrilled w/ my results. I will say that I ended up w/ a killer scholarship at what's generally thought of as a non-splitter friendly school (ND).

I got no T13 acceptances at all except for Cornell, where I got an offensively paltry scholarship offer (less than $5K).

Looking back, I'd apply to NU. I had WE that I didn't think would qualify (I was a mercenary college freshman chemistry teacher), but TLS has enlightened me that anything above waitressing will typically count. I also didn't apply to Mich or Berkeley; I have no special reason to believe I'd have gotten in there, but there you go.

splitster1221 wrote:

bdubs wrote:You are wasting your ED at Chicago since there is little chance of you getting in there. You are probably out at everything above Cornell and your chances go from close to zero to more substantial at 13-20 range schools. I would probably ED to GULC or Cornell if you are shooting for T14, but it will be at sticker. I think you are definitely good for WUSTL.

I would also kill UCLA unless you get a fee waiver, they probably won't bite on that GPA.

Are you a URM? If so all of ^ is off.

There is no ED at Cornell, but is EA which I don't think gives any advantage really. But you don't think I have a shot at UVA or Michigan with ED?

I did EA at Cornell. It is a truly worthless program wherein they defer everyone.

I also did UVA ED; they get back to you quickly (like 15 days) but if I recall it's known to be reverse-splitter friendly.

splitster1221 wrote:

bdubs wrote:Yeah I forgot about the non-binding EA at Cornell. You are pushing on GPA floors at Michigan with a 3.1-3.3 LSAC GPA and your 170 is not high enough above median to make up for it. Same goes with UVA (where the median is 170 and includes all of the in state kids), although they seem more accepting of low GPAs the 170 just wont cut it.

I've read a lot on this site that above a 3.0 and 170+ is almost guaranteed for UVA with ED

Two data points on LSN, one got in and the other didn't.

http://uva.lawschoolnumbers.com/applica ... =3&type=jd

The one who got in listed strong softs, ivy UG, 1-2 years of WE, and an application on the first day of the cycle.

UVA is known to use ED to maintain or boost their medians, you drag down the GPA median and only maintain last years LSAT median. I think it's possible, but perhaps not as likely as you might want it to be.

flcath wrote:

splitster1221 wrote:

flcath wrote:It is a good thing you cleverly hid your true GPA.

I almost had your identity narrowed down.

I'm still in UG and haven't computed my official GPA, when I apply and most likely by the time I'm accepted/rejected my GPA will be anywhere from 3.15 to 3.3

I gotcha man.

FWIW, I was in basically the same position as you (within your gpa range, and a higher LSAT), and I don't think you'd be thrilled w/ my results. I will say that I ended up w/ a killer scholarship at what's generally thought of as a non-splitter friendly school (ND).

I got no T13 acceptances at all except for Cornell, where I got an offensively paltry scholarship offer (less than $5K).

Looking back, I'd apply to NU. I had WE that I didn't think would qualify (I was a mercenary college freshman chemistry teacher), but TLS has enlightened me that anything above waitressing will typically count. I also didn't apply to Mich or Berkeley; I have no special reason to believe I'd have gotten in there, but there you go.

Thanks. Does only strictly postgraduate work experience count for NU? For example, my WE as an intern for 3 years doing the same work as some of the FT employees would not count? Also, did you apply to WUSTL?

I know a 170 isn't necessarily a wise score to retake, but unfortunately even one extra point on the lsat would increase your chances significantly next cycle. Just saying...

Otherwise, you're going to have to make a really solid app and taylor it to a holistic school like Michigan. Penn also let in a few people with your numbers this year, not even ED. It's gonna be a crapshoot.

sanetruth wrote:I know a 170 isn't necessarily a wise score to retake, but unfortunately even one extra point on the lsat would increase your chances significantly next cycle. Just saying...

Otherwise, you're going to have to make a really solid app and taylor it to a holistic school like Michigan. Penn also let in a few people with your numbers this year, not even ED. It's gonna be a crapshoot.

Thanks. I saw that about Penn too and look at it as a longer shot but still a chance. Anyone have any other suggestions on schools to target or where to use my ED (if I really liked it)? I would be really happy to get into Cornell too that might be the highest I have a chance at

The only way you are getting into UVA with those numbers is ED, but you have a decent shot if you do. You'll get money at WUSTL. The only work experience that counts for NU is actual work experience. No summer internships, etc.

flcath wrote:

splitster1221 wrote:

bdubs wrote:You are wasting your ED at Chicago since there is little chance of you getting in there. You are probably out at everything above Cornell and your chances go from close to zero to more substantial at 13-20 range schools. I would probably ED to GULC or Cornell if you are shooting for T14, but it will be at sticker. I think you are definitely good for WUSTL.

I would also kill UCLA unless you get a fee waiver, they probably won't bite on that GPA.

Are you a URM? If so all of ^ is off.

I also did UVA ED; they get back to you quickly (like 15 days) but if I recall it's known to be reverse-splitter friendly.

How early did you turn in your UVA ED app? It seems really rare for splitters with 17X/~3 to get rejected ED if they turn it in right away.

Any shot at Duke with a 172 LSAT?

Also, what schools are currently regarded as having very good sports law programs? Difficult to find any recent info on the subject, but dated stuff has Duke, Tulane, Marquette, UCLA and other CA/NY schools listed. Any school in the top 14-30 with well-known programs/journals/societies?

splitster1221 wrote:Any shot at Duke with a 172 LSAT?

Also, what schools are currently regarded as having very good Sports Law programs? Difficult to find any recent info on the subject, but dated stuff has Duke, Tulane, Marquette, UCLA and other CA/NY schools listed. Any school in the top 14-30 with well-known programs/journals/societies?

Duke is pretty GPA happy, so I'd say you're probably out either way.

I don't think specialty rankings mean too much.

splitster1221 wrote:Thanks. Does only strictly postgraduate work experience count for NU? For example, my WE as an intern for 3 years doing the same work as some of the FT employees would not count? Also, did you apply to WUSTL?

I think NU only looks at FT work experience that was acquired post-grad. The idea is to get a more well-rounded/mature class, or something. IDreallyK.

I'd say if you are set on this cycle, ED to UVa THE SECOND apps are open. Hope for the best. If your cycle doesn't turn out the way you'd like, re-take (or study for a re-take anyway, you never know how it might help you), get a job, and apply again next cycle.

Thanks! Anyone want to rank WUSTL, ILL, MINN, IOWA, IUB and give some reasoning why?

splitster1221 wrote:Thanks! Anyone want to rank WUSTL, ILL, MINN, IOWA, IUB and give some reasoning why?

They are all super regional.

But I'd say:

WUSTL/Ill
Minn
Iowa/IUB

Based on how many people end up in big law.

By far your best chance at getting into the best school possible for you is clearly:

UVA ED the very first day of admissions: (If accepted your cycle could be done in 3 days--at worse you'll know in 2 weeks).

If waitlisted: ED to Duke priority, or Michigan, or Gtown

See if there is a way to make the most of your ED...if no ED bites then you are hoping for Cornell 9probably not as a straight out of UG with poor GPA)

then you will go for WUSTL, GW, U of I, and one of several big drop offs

splitster1221 wrote:

flcath wrote:

splitster1221 wrote:

flcath wrote:It is a good thing you cleverly hid your true GPA.

I almost had your identity narrowed down.

I'm still in UG and haven't computed my official GPA, when I apply and most likely by the time I'm accepted/rejected my GPA will be anywhere from 3.15 to 3.3

I gotcha man.

FWIW, I was in basically the same position as you (within your gpa range, and a higher LSAT), and I don't think you'd be thrilled w/ my results. I will say that I ended up w/ a killer scholarship at what's generally thought of as a non-splitter friendly school (ND).

I got no T13 acceptances at all except for Cornell, where I got an offensively paltry scholarship offer (less than $5K).

Looking back, I'd apply to NU. I had WE that I didn't think would qualify (I was a mercenary college freshman chemistry teacher), but TLS has enlightened me that anything above waitressing will typically count. I also didn't apply to Mich or Berkeley; I have no special reason to believe I'd have gotten in there, but there you go.

Thanks. Does only strictly postgraduate work experience count for NU? For example, my WE as an intern for 3 years doing the same work as some of the FT employees would not count? Also, did you apply to WUSTL?

I really don't know. Like I said, I just assumed from the way they talked about it in their promotional materials that they wanted high-powered "law as a second career" types. I guess it makes sense that they would over-talk it that way... I guess I'm yet another casualty of law school advertising.

I didn't find out that the NU WE requirement was such a checklist item until like midway through my 1L year, when there was a TLS thread on it.