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Hi everyone! My LSAT is a 168. I have a 3.82 GPA.

I'm going to be applying this fall for law school entry beginning in the fall of 2012. This coming year I'm going to be teaching English in Spain. I was very interested in applying ED to UMich, but the mandatory summer start prevents me from doing that as I'll still be in Spain.

I have average to (maybe) slightly above average softs.

What are my chances at T14 schools? Where might be a good ED option if I decide to go that route? I'm particularly interested in UMich, Duke, UVA, Cornell, Northwestern, Penn, Georgetown and Texas.

Fortunately, I'm done with the LSAT and have very little to do this summer, so I'll be spending a good bit of time preparing my apps so they can go out the first day of the cycle.

Thanks for the advice!

You'll have a shot at Cornell and GTown. Unfortunately that 168 definitely holds you back there, but your numbers are such that you'll likely get a whole lot of money from strong regional schools. Where do you want to practice?

You might get one or two of MVP and B, and will probably get something in the lower T14.
I don't know how UVA ED works with LSATs under 170 and higher gpas, but splitters tend to do well there, and you will get a fast enough turnaround to try again at Penn or Berkeley.
I'd be truly surprised if you don't get something in the T14

You have a shot at UVA ED. Last cycle was bad at UVA for people with your numbers, but several got in the cycle before that. The good news is that UVA guarantees a response within two weeks. So I would shoot off an ED app there and then ED to somewhere else if you don't get it.

from what i see on lawschoolnumbers.com, you'll get ED Michigan.

legaleagle9 wrote:from what i see on lawschoolnumbers.com, you'll get ED Michigan.

Real Madrid wrote: I'm going to be applying this fall for law school entry beginning in the fall of 2012. This coming year I'm going to be teaching English in Spain. I was very interested in applying ED to UMich, but the mandatory summer start prevents me from doing that as I'll still be in Spain.

Corwin wrote:

legaleagle9 wrote:from what i see on lawschoolnumbers.com, you'll get ED Michigan.

Real Madrid wrote: I'm going to be applying this fall for law school entry beginning in the fall of 2012. This coming year I'm going to be teaching English in Spain. I was very interested in applying ED to UMich, but the mandatory summer start prevents me from doing that as I'll still be in Spain.

OP, did you check with Michigan to see if they would be able to make an exception under strange circumstances?

Hannibal wrote:You'll have a shot at Cornell and GTown. Unfortunately that 168 definitely holds you back there, but your numbers are such that you'll likely get a whole lot of money from strong regional schools. Where do you want to practice?

I think I'd like to practice in NY, Chicago or DC.

Does my one year of foreign work experience help me at Northwestern?

JamMasterJ wrote: OP, did you check with Michigan to see if they would be able to make an exception under strange circumstances?

No, I haven't done that. I guess it's worth a shot. I definitely would like Michigan to know that's where I want to go - so I'll definitely be writing a couple of the optional wessays.

By the way, how much do those essays help? I've been hoping they'd really help someone on the borderline like me.

If you want T14 next cycle forget Spain and go to Michigan...otherwise hope for Cornell but not likely

Snape wrote:If you want T14 next cycle forget Spain and go to Michigan...otherwise hope for Cornell but not likely

Who gives up an opportunity to go live in spain? michigan isn't going anywhere. seriously.

Is Cornell really that unlikely? On LSN it looks like everyone with a 168 and a GPA of 3.7 or higher was accepted (with one exception, and they were wait listed).

glitter178 wrote:

Snape wrote:If you want T14 next cycle forget Spain and go to Michigan...otherwise hope for Cornell but not likely

Who gives up an opportunity to go live in spain? michigan isn't going anywhere. seriously.

Please read and understand before you respond...again, if you want Michigan (T14) NEXT YEAR...then forget Spain...obviously if you read this correctly you would understand that was only for NEXT YEAR...seriously.

Snape wrote:

glitter178 wrote:

Snape wrote:If you want T14 next cycle forget Spain and go to Michigan...otherwise hope for Cornell but not likely

Who gives up an opportunity to go live in spain? michigan isn't going anywhere. seriously.

Please read and understand before you respond...again, if you want Michigan (T14) NEXT YEAR...then forget Spain...obviously if you read this correctly you would understand that was only for NEXT YEAR...seriously.

ugh. i understood perfectly well. i'm just disagreeing with you.

If you want a top school, UVA ED is your best shot. If that fails, you'll still have time to ED to any other school you want.

You should get GULC and Cornell regular decision, and should get some money at Vandy and Texas. Expect big money to T30 schools.

legaleagle9 wrote:from what i see on lawschoolnumbers.com, you'll get ED Michigan.

false.

duckmoney wrote:If you want a top school, UVA ED is your best shot. If that fails, you'll still have time to ED to any other school you want.

You should get GULC and Cornell regular decision, and should get some money at Vandy and Texas. Expect big money to T30 schools.

no, this person is not above either UVa median and therefore will not get in. the numbers aren't hard to read people

Snape wrote:

glitter178 wrote:

Snape wrote:If you want T14 next cycle forget Spain and go to Michigan...otherwise hope for Cornell but not likely

Who gives up an opportunity to go live in spain? michigan isn't going anywhere. seriously.

Please read and understand before you respond...again, if you want Michigan (T14) NEXT YEAR...then forget Spain...obviously if you read this correctly you would understand that was only for NEXT YEAR...seriously.

uhhh, he did read it correctly, it's just bad advice dude

Real Madrid wrote:Is Cornell really that unlikely? On LSN it looks like everyone with a 168 and a GPA of 3.7 or higher was accepted (with one exception, and they were wait listed).

cornell will happen with these #s if this person applies before 11/1. after that who knows

Any chance at Duke or Northwestern after a year of WE?

paulinaporizkova wrote:

legaleagle9 wrote:from what i see on lawschoolnumbers.com, you'll get ED Michigan.

false.

eh. his chances dont look bad:

http://michigan.lawschoolnumbers.com/ap ... =3&type=jd

those were the ED applicants to UMich on LSN

legaleagle9 wrote:

paulinaporizkova wrote:

legaleagle9 wrote:from what i see on lawschoolnumbers.com, you'll get ED Michigan.

false.

eh. his chances dont look bad:

http://michigan.lawschoolnumbers.com/ap ... =3&type=jd

those were the ED applicants to UMich on LSN

i see 2 people (maybe 3) with #s around OP's, this doesn't at all establish a correlative relationship. where's the info for EDers who got rolled over to RD with similar numbers? michigan is known for being more holistic than the average t14 and takes EDers with less than stellar #s but they almost always have great softs...furthermore michigan limits its number of ED spots to around 40 or 45. saying this person will "get ED michigan" is totally false

furthermore not to out myself as a total addict to this site, which i am, but 2 of those people with #s around OP's have great softs - i've talked to them both on TLS

Your numbers are what they are. So I would focus my energy on the rest of my application if I were you. Get working on your personal statement and resume. Go check out the admissions blogs from a few law schools. Yale's has great general advice and is also quite funny. If you get your Resume and Personal Statement done now, then you will have them to show to the professors writing your letters of recommendation, which will do a few very good things for you. First, you will make a good impression by being so well organized. Secondly, you will be giving your professors more time to work on them--and time when they aren't as busy. Finally, if you have the rest of your application constructed, then you will be in a good position to provide your recommenders with a general direction for taking the letters, i.e. you can have them echo some of the strengths you are trying to convey while addressing possible weaknesses with a credible voice.

You want to get the most mileage out of your numbers and the rest of your application is the place to do that. I applied in late January to Vanderbilt with 168 and a 3.78 GPA. I was accepted within a month and received 70k in money. Many applicants with similar numbers (or even stronger numbers) applied earlier and were waitlisted or didn't receive comparable scholarship. I attribute my success to the extra effort I spent in crafting the rest of my application.

Best of luck to you.

[EDIT] I did the optional interview for Vanderbilt as well.

Your numbers are what they are. So I would focus my energy on the rest of my application if I were you. Get working on your personal statement and resume. Go check out the admissions blogs from a few law schools. Yale's has great general advice and is also quite funny. If you get your Resume and Personal Statement done now, then you will have them to show to the professors writing your letters of recommendation, which will do a few very good things for you. First, you will make a good impression by being so well organized. Secondly, you will be giving your professors more time to work on them--and time when they aren't as busy. Finally, if you have the rest of your application constructed, then you will be in a good position to provide your recommenders with a general direction for taking the letters, i.e. you can have them echo some of the strengths you are trying to convey while addressing possible weaknesses with a credible voice.

You want to get the most mileage out of your numbers and the rest of your application is the place to do that. I applied in late January to Vanderbilt with 168 and a 3.78 GPA. I was accepted within a month and received 70k in money. Many applicants with similar numbers (or even stronger numbers) applied earlier and were waitlisted or didn't receive comparable scholarship. I attribute my success to the extra effort I spent in crafting the rest of my application.

Best of luck to you.

Congrats on your successful cycle!

And sorry for the bump, but does anyone think I have a shot (good or otherwise) at Duke ED or Northwestern after a year's work experience in a foreign country?

Real Madrid wrote:

Your numbers are what they are. So I would focus my energy on the rest of my application if I were you. Get working on your personal statement and resume. Go check out the admissions blogs from a few law schools. Yale's has great general advice and is also quite funny. If you get your Resume and Personal Statement done now, then you will have them to show to the professors writing your letters of recommendation, which will do a few very good things for you. First, you will make a good impression by being so well organized. Secondly, you will be giving your professors more time to work on them--and time when they aren't as busy. Finally, if you have the rest of your application constructed, then you will be in a good position to provide your recommenders with a general direction for taking the letters, i.e. you can have them echo some of the strengths you are trying to convey while addressing possible weaknesses with a credible voice.

You want to get the most mileage out of your numbers and the rest of your application is the place to do that. I applied in late January to Vanderbilt with 168 and a 3.78 GPA. I was accepted within a month and received 70k in money. Many applicants with similar numbers (or even stronger numbers) applied earlier and were waitlisted or didn't receive comparable scholarship. I attribute my success to the extra effort I spent in crafting the rest of my application.

Best of luck to you.

Congrats on your successful cycle!

And sorry for the bump, but does anyone think I have a shot (good or otherwise) at Duke ED or Northwestern after a year's work experience in a foreign country?

Cheers. I am very excited to start at Vandy.

I think you have a shot at both schools. My advice though would be to ignore (to a qualified extent) the statistical reality of your numbers and instead focus on where you would like to be. Your numbers are low for the T14 but not impossible. Working abroad adds something unique, which is why I recommended that you work on the intangible aspects of your application. FYI, I fully support spending time abroad; I have worked in Japan for the past 4 years.

Research schools in the T14; apply to those that you would really like to attend. Also put in applications at schools outside the T14 that you feel good about. In all cases apply early. Law school numbers is a website that will give you an idea of where you generally stack up. Remember that TLS tends to amplify and echo certain advice for better and for worse. If something is at least somewhat credited, then it tends to gain power by being repeated by numerous voices. A bad note, no matter how loudly played, is still bad. People below both medians can and DO get accepted at schools. This is of course less likely to be the case, but it does happen. With your numbers you will probably be looking at a choice between some of T14 and money at some of the other schools. If you cast a broad net then you will likely have a few (good) options to choose from. Best of luck!

PS if you end up at Vandy, I will buy you a drink.