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Want to go to Hastings or Davis....

People are just going to tell you to retake.

You should focus on getting at least a 163+

Assuming you are going for next cycle, I'd definitely retake. Study your ass off for the Oct test. It just looks like such a waste of an amazing gpa.

mlbaker wrote:Want to go to Hastings or Davis.

You're not getting in either school with a 157, plain and simple (unless you're a URM).

Retake the LSAT in June or October. Take your preparation seriously.

Why did you feel it necessary to put your latin honors in the title?

jarofsoup wrote:People are just going to tell you to retake.

You should focus on getting at least a 163+

+180

MrPapagiorgio wrote:Why did you feel it necessary to put your latin honors in the title?

I don't know, in order to get the honors title we had to do a senior thesis that was outside the normal route, didn't know if that meant anything good or bad. Sorry, I should have clarified that.

mlbaker wrote:Want to go to Hastings or Davis....
oh, I minored in education to, though, I am not sure that really helps or hinders.

I was in an eerily similar situation last year, I worked in construction for a year and retook. Even with a bump from 157 to 162 I am in a much better situation now. Also, to be a douche, I minored in education too.

Apply to Davis & Hastings. You should be able to get stellar recommendations. You 4.0 GPA & academic achievements will get noticed.

Waste of an awesome GPA. LSAT >= 165 WILL get you at least one T14.

ArthurDigbySellers wrote:Waste of an awesome GPA. LSAT >= 165 WILL get you at least one T14.

Highly debatable. Maybe if you write a stellar "Why Berkeley," but there are tons of people with 4.0/165 and 4.0/166 who swing and miss on T14. If OP wants to be guaranteed a T14 acceptance, he or she needs a 168 IMO.

ATR wrote:

ArthurDigbySellers wrote:Waste of an awesome GPA. LSAT >= 165 WILL get you at least one T14.

Highly debatable. Maybe if you write a stellar "Why Berkeley," but there are tons of people with 4.0/165 and 4.0/166 who swing and miss on T14. If OP wants to be guaranteed a T14 acceptance, he or she needs a 168 IMO.

correct. a 165 never guarantees t14.

OK, but point being don't sell yourself short

CanadianWolf wrote:Apply to Davis & Hastings. You should be able to get stellar recommendations. You 4.0 GPA & academic achievements will get noticed.

Thanks for the good faith.

mlbaker wrote:

CanadianWolf wrote:Apply to Davis & Hastings. You should be able to get stellar recommendations. You 4.0 GPA & academic achievements will get noticed.

Thanks for the good faith.

Only TWO non-URM applicants on LSN who applied to either school in the last two cycles has been accepted with a 157 or below. Take a look yourself:

http://hastings.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats/0910/
http://hastings.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats
http://davis.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats/0910/
http://davis.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats

You can nut up and prepare for an LSAT retake, or you can bury your head in the sand and believe you're a special snowflake... and more than likely get rejected/waitlisted. On the off-chance you get in either, you'll be paying sticker, which means $150,000+ of debt. Your choice.

ATR wrote:

mlbaker wrote:

CanadianWolf wrote:Apply to Davis & Hastings. You should be able to get stellar recommendations. You 4.0 GPA & academic achievements will get noticed.

Thanks for the good faith.

Only TWO non-URM applicants on LSN who applied to either school in the last two cycles has been accepted with a 157 or below. Take a look yourself:

http://hastings.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats/0910/
http://hastings.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats
http://davis.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats/0910/
http://davis.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats

You can nut up and prepare for an LSAT retake, or you can bury your head in the sand and believe you're a special snowflake... and more than likely get rejected/waitlisted. On the off-chance you get in either, you'll be paying sticker, which means $150,000+ of debt. Your choice.

Ya, I understand that I am as far away from a shoe in as possible. That said, LSN data represents less than 10% of the applicant pool, and to simply use it as the template is a bit foolish it seems. I definitely do not want to "bury my head in the sand" but rather see whether or not their were some individuals here who had similar stats who could share their experiences. With that in mind, I still do appreciate the honesty that I have received from people.

mlbaker wrote:Ya, I understand that I am as far away from a shoe in as possible. That said, LSN data represents less than 10% of the applicant pool, and to simply use it as the template is a bit foolish it seems. I definitely do not want to "bury my head in the sand" but rather see whether or not their were some individuals here who had similar stats who could share their experiences. With that in mind, I still do appreciate the honesty that I have received from people.

I apologize that my last post ITT was disrespectful.

I can appreciate wanting to have some anecdotes of success, but they do not outweigh statistics (i.e., LSN or published data) when it comes to admissions. Sure, LSN is but a slice of the applicant pool, and, sure, people get accepted with sub-median numbers -- after all, they are medians -- but it's terribly important to maximize your LSAT performance. It can save you enormous debt and dramatically improve your career trajectory down the line. What's one year to retake and reapply when considering that?

mlbaker wrote: Ya, I understand that I am as far away from a shoe in as possible. That said, LSN data represents less than 10% of the applicant pool, and to simply use it as the template is a bit foolish it seems. I definitely do not want to "bury my head in the sand" but rather see whether or not their were some individuals here who had similar stats who could share their experiences. With that in mind, I still do appreciate the honesty that I have received from people.

simple question: what is your plan for paying off 200k in debt if you get median grades?

ATR wrote:

ArthurDigbySellers wrote:Waste of an awesome GPA. LSAT >= 165 WILL get you at least one T14.

Highly debatable. Maybe if you write a stellar "Why Berkeley," but there are tons of people with 4.0/165 and 4.0/166 who swing and miss on T14. If OP wants to be guaranteed a T14 acceptance, he or she needs a 168 IMO.

The 165's and 166's were either semi-URMs or folks with uber-amazing softs. 167 seems sufficient for Cornell and Georgetown, however.

ATR wrote:

mlbaker wrote:Ya, I understand that I am as far away from a shoe in as possible. That said, LSN data represents less than 10% of the applicant pool, and to simply use it as the template is a bit foolish it seems. I definitely do not want to "bury my head in the sand" but rather see whether or not their were some individuals here who had similar stats who could share their experiences. With that in mind, I still do appreciate the honesty that I have received from people.

I apologize that my last post ITT was disrespectful.

I can appreciate wanting to have some anecdotes of success, but they do not outweigh statistics (i.e., LSN or published data) when it comes to admissions. Sure, LSN is but a slice of the applicant pool, and, sure, people get accepted with sub-median numbers -- after all, they are medians -- but it's terribly important to maximize your LSAT performance. It can save you enormous debt and dramatically improve your career trajectory down the line. What's one year to retake and reapply when considering that?

Ya, no big deal, I understand that in part you are trying to stop the perversion of bad information. I also totally agree with you about the cost benefit of a retake and reapply, and I totally will if the options that present themselves require me to do just that. I sort of had no chance but to take the LSAT prematurely, and my score reflects that decision, but as you correctly pointed out, what's a year worth in the grand scheme of things. Thanks again.

A 157 will be wasting your 4 years of hard work earning that awesome GPA. Raising to a 165 will likely get you $$ from Davis / Hastings (a 7 point increase is modest btw). If you hit 170+, T-14 schools will be giving you money. Hit a 175 and enjoy HYS.

Really, waiting and trying everything possible to raise your LSAT score will pay off HUGE for you in the future. Don't feel committed to applying NOW.

Either buckle down and get cracking on your self-study or sign up with a course (testmasters.net, powerscore.com, blueprintprep.com)

gwuorbust wrote:

mlbaker wrote: Ya, I understand that I am as far away from a shoe in as possible. That said, LSN data represents less than 10% of the applicant pool, and to simply use it as the template is a bit foolish it seems. I definitely do not want to "bury my head in the sand" but rather see whether or not their were some individuals here who had similar stats who could share their experiences. With that in mind, I still do appreciate the honesty that I have received from people.

simple question: what is your plan for paying off 200k in debt if you get median grades?

I want this question answered.

ATR wrote:

ArthurDigbySellers wrote:Waste of an awesome GPA. LSAT >= 165 WILL get you at least one T14.

Highly debatable. Maybe if you write a stellar "Why Berkeley," but there are tons of people with 4.0/165 and 4.0/166 who swing and miss on T14. If OP wants to be guaranteed a T14 acceptance, he or she needs a 168 IMO.

i got into 3 t14s with a 4.0/167. i think cornell is still viable with a 166 if you apply early. all this could change though since this year 25th percentile LSATs have risen at a couple schools. used to be 167 for gulc and now it's 168. maybe if i applied this coming cycle i wouldn't have gotten in because of that. same thing happened at duke and michigan i think

also, just revived a totally lifeless thread with an abandoned OP. just thought i'd throw that out there

FeelTheHeat wrote:

gwuorbust wrote:

mlbaker wrote: Ya, I understand that I am as far away from a shoe in as possible. That said, LSN data represents less than 10% of the applicant pool, and to simply use it as the template is a bit foolish it seems. I definitely do not want to "bury my head in the sand" but rather see whether or not their were some individuals here who had similar stats who could share their experiences. With that in mind, I still do appreciate the honesty that I have received from people.

simple question: what is your plan for paying off 200k in debt if you get median grades?

I want this question answered.

nobody ever seems to answer this question..

paulinaporizkova wrote:i got into 3 t14s with a 4.0/167. i think cornell is still viable with a 166 if you apply early. all this could change though since this year 25th percentile LSATs have risen at a couple schools. used to be 167 for gulc and now it's 168. maybe if i applied this coming cycle i wouldn't have gotten in because of that. same thing happened at duke and michigan i think

It's obviously true that people with sub-168s can get T14 acceptances, but I did not argue otherwise. I said a 4.0/168 should guarantee a T14 acceptance, not that someone with a 4.0/sub-168 cannot get a T14 acceptance. Congrats on your acceptances, BTW.