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After doing two years of Community College,I was accepted to UC Berkeley. I managed to maintain a 4.0 and get a BA in Political Science. I plan to apply for various t14 Law Schools for the 2012 cycle. The only thing holding me back and worrying me is the conflicting information regarding "W's."

I've been maintaining a 40 hour a week job to support my ailing mother (Fibromiligia) and I've had to withdraw from some courses here or there as a result, the aggregate being 7 in about 4 and a half years of study, ALL of them in community college. I know this is above average amount, but Cal didn't care-- so my question is as follows --

Will I be greatly diminished in my ability to get into a t14 school (Harvard, Yale, Standford, etc.)? Most of the people I've talked to say that all Law School's care about is GPA and LSATS, followed by some nebulous factors such as soft ECs, etc, and that the way that Law School grades are calculated makes it so that W's are irrelevant and weightless, and that my LSAT score of 177 will put me over the edge. But there is enough conflicting information to give me pause. Please assume that in the absence of the W's, my soft positives would make it so I would get in. I'm very confident in my EC's.

Anyone who could shed some light on the above would be most helpful.

Thanks

Samms wrote:After doing two years of Community College,I was accepted to UC Berkeley. I managed to maintain a 4.0 and get a BA in Political Science. I plan to apply for various t14 Law Schools for the 2012 cycle. The only thing holding me back and worrying me is the conflicting information regarding "W's."

I've been maintaining a 40 hour a week job to support my ailing mother (Fibromiligia) and I've had to withdraw from some courses here or there as a result, the aggregate being 7 in about 4 and a half years of study, ALL of them in community college. I know this is above average amount, but Cal didn't care-- so my question is as follows --

Will I be greatly diminished in my ability to get into a t14 school (Harvard, Yale, Standford, etc.)? Most of the people I've talked to say that all Law School's care about is GPA and LSATS, followed by some nebulous factors such as soft ECs, etc, and that the way that Law School grades are calculated makes it so that W's are irrelevant and weightless, and that my LSAT score of 177 will put me over the edge. But there is enough conflicting information to give me pause. Please assume that in the absence of the W's, my soft positives would make it so I would get in. I'm very confident in my EC's.

Anyone who could shed some light on the above would be most helpful.

Thanks

What's your LSDAS GPA? If you received any W's (W= Withdrawn, I'm assuming) there's no way your LSDAS GPA is 4.0, in my experiance law schools don't look at undergraduate GPAs. If that were the case my uGPA would be 3.96, yet my LSDAS GPA is something ridiculously low like 3.22-3.3, remember now, Law School Admmisions look at EVERY course you've ever taken (failed, withdrawn, passed, transfer, community college, etc.)


I say search for a LSDAS calculator online to give you a better indicator of your LSAT GPA (LSDAS), because I doubt it’s a 4.0, with Ws from community college.

Samms wrote:After doing two years of Community College,I was accepted to UC Berkeley. I managed to maintain a 4.0 and get a BA in Political Science. I plan to apply for various t14 Law Schools for the 2012 cycle. The only thing holding me back and worrying me is the conflicting information regarding "W's."

I've been maintaining a 40 hour a week job to support my ailing mother (Fibromiligia) and I've had to withdraw from some courses here or there as a result, the aggregate being 7 in about 4 and a half years of study, ALL of them in community college. I know this is above average amount, but Cal didn't care-- so my question is as follows --

Will I be greatly diminished in my ability to get into a t14 school (Harvard, Yale, Standford, etc.)? Most of the people I've talked to say that all Law School's care about is GPA and LSATS, followed by some nebulous factors such as soft ECs, etc, and that the way that Law School grades are calculated makes it so that W's are irrelevant and weightless, and that my LSAT score of 177 will put me over the edge. But there is enough conflicting information to give me pause. Please assume that in the absence of the W's, my soft positives would make it so I would get in. I'm very confident in my EC's.

Anyone who could shed some light on the above would be most helpful.

Thanks

To my knowledge W's aren't factored into the gpa.

M&A621 wrote:

Samms wrote:After doing two years of Community College,I was accepted to UC Berkeley. I managed to maintain a 4.0 and get a BA in Political Science. I plan to apply for various t14 Law Schools for the 2012 cycle. The only thing holding me back and worrying me is the conflicting information regarding "W's."

I've been maintaining a 40 hour a week job to support my ailing mother (Fibromiligia) and I've had to withdraw from some courses here or there as a result, the aggregate being 7 in about 4 and a half years of study, ALL of them in community college. I know this is above average amount, but Cal didn't care-- so my question is as follows --

Will I be greatly diminished in my ability to get into a t14 school (Harvard, Yale, Standford, etc.)? Most of the people I've talked to say that all Law School's care about is GPA and LSATS, followed by some nebulous factors such as soft ECs, etc, and that the way that Law School grades are calculated makes it so that W's are irrelevant and weightless, and that my LSAT score of 177 will put me over the edge. But there is enough conflicting information to give me pause. Please assume that in the absence of the W's, my soft positives would make it so I would get in. I'm very confident in my EC's.

Anyone who could shed some light on the above would be most helpful.

Thanks

What's your LSDAS GPA? If you received any W's (W= Withdrawn, I'm assuming) there's no way your LSDAS GPA is 4.0, in my experiance law schools don't look at undergraduate GPAs. If that were the case my uGPA would be 3.96, yet my LSDAS GPA is something ridiculously low like 3.22-3.3, remember now, Law School Admmisions look at EVERY course you've ever taken (failed, withdrawn, passed, transfer, community college, etc.)


I say search for a LSDAS calculator online to give you a better indicator of your LSAT GPA (LSDAS), because I doubt it’s a 4.0, with Ws from community college.

Ws don't hurt on a transcript for LSDAS GPA calculation. WFs do. There is a difference and it's definitely possible to have a 4.0 with Ws on the transcript.

I think I had one W on my transcript and it did not hurt my lsadas gpa.


Enjoy HYS

I had many many Ws (at least seven) in community college and one WF. None hurt my gpa. I think with a legitimate addendum an adcomm would overlook it.

I think it depends on whether your UG views the Ws as punitive. Mine didn't.

Thank you all for the responses so far -- I'll go ahead and clarify the situation.

Doing some research and entering my GPA into a calculator for LSAC, it's right at 4.0. At Berkeley when I went at least, I got all A's in all of my classes, as well as in my two years at Community College, so that leads to around 4 and a half years of grades, all being in the "4.0" cumulative category.

I know the distinction between "W" and "WF" as the first poster suggested, I have done my homework, the only reason I bring this thread here is because I'm wondering if I could get some solid information on the "W" aspect. There is NO GPA loss with the W's on there. I know that for some adcomms, a W might be tantamount to a certain flippancy or dilettantism regarding my studies, but again, the Ws were all documented and occurred in the first stage of my academic pursuits, and none of them were in my major or occurred in my Jr. or Snr. year at UC Berkeley.

So, with the above clarification, can some of you revisit this post and give me some chances or odds that I will have a good t14 cycle? I've reviewed some people who got into all t14 schools, and they had lesser numbers than mine, but the soft aspects are unclear, such as "W's" on transcript, etc. The issue with this aspect of grading is that every Admissions officer and every professor and every councilor has a different opinion of just how much a W effects your "chances." It seems to be very subjective and unscientific, which is paradoxical as the Admissions process, as well as the educational process, should be as precise as possible, as people are investing in their futures, and the Federal Government is investing in us with every tax payer dollar allocated to Universities.

I digress, but I look forward to your responses.

Samms wrote:Thank you all for the responses so far -- I'll go ahead and clarify the situation.

Doing some research and entering my GPA into a calculator for LSAC, it's right at 4.0. At Berkeley when I went at least, I got all A's in all of my classes, as well as in my two years at Community College, so that leads to around 4 and a half years of grades, all being in the "4.0" cumulative category.

I know the distinction between "W" and "WF" as the first poster suggested, I have done my homework, the only reason I bring this thread here is because I'm wondering if I could get some solid information on the "W" aspect. There is NO GPA loss with the W's on there. I know that for some adcomms, a W might be tantamount to a certain flippancy or dilettantism regarding my studies, but again, the Ws were all documented and occurred in the first stage of my academic pursuits, and none of them were in my major or occurred in my Jr. or Snr. year at UC Berkeley.

So, with the above clarification, can some of you revisit this post and give me some chances or odds that I will have a good t14 cycle? I've reviewed some people who got into all t14 schools, and they had lesser numbers than mine, but the soft aspects are unclear, such as "W's" on transcript, etc. The issue with this aspect of grading is that every Admissions officer and every professor and every councilor has a different opinion of just how much a W effects your "chances." It seems to be very subjective and unscientific, which is paradoxical as the Admissions process, as well as the educational process, should be as precise as possible, as people are investing in their futures, and the Federal Government is investing in us with every tax payer dollar allocated to Universities.

I digress, but I look forward to your responses.

They will see it, and it will be a slight negative, but LSDAS GPA is far more important. If yours is 4.0, congratulations on H, and probably YS.

If you don't have a legitimate excuse for the Ws, you typically DON'T write an addendum and just let it slide, but this may not be the case for you. Just make a short and sweet addendum explaining your situation about supporting your mother and how at Berkeley (when you were presumably free of those pressures) you were able to finish your classes without hindrance.

I doubt those Ws will hurt you much, if at all. Enjoy HYS

I was in a similar situation. You'll be fine. More info in the PM.

d34dluk3 wrote:

Samms wrote:Thank you all for the responses so far -- I'll go ahead and clarify the situation.

Doing some research and entering my GPA into a calculator for LSAC, it's right at 4.0. At Berkeley when I went at least, I got all A's in all of my classes, as well as in my two years at Community College, so that leads to around 4 and a half years of grades, all being in the "4.0" cumulative category.

I know the distinction between "W" and "WF" as the first poster suggested, I have done my homework, the only reason I bring this thread here is because I'm wondering if I could get some solid information on the "W" aspect. There is NO GPA loss with the W's on there. I know that for some adcomms, a W might be tantamount to a certain flippancy or dilettantism regarding my studies, but again, the Ws were all documented and occurred in the first stage of my academic pursuits, and none of them were in my major or occurred in my Jr. or Snr. year at UC Berkeley.

So, with the above clarification, can some of you revisit this post and give me some chances or odds that I will have a good t14 cycle? I've reviewed some people who got into all t14 schools, and they had lesser numbers than mine, but the soft aspects are unclear, such as "W's" on transcript, etc. The issue with this aspect of grading is that every Admissions officer and every professor and every councilor has a different opinion of just how much a W effects your "chances." It seems to be very subjective and unscientific, which is paradoxical as the Admissions process, as well as the educational process, should be as precise as possible, as people are investing in their futures, and the Federal Government is investing in us with every tax payer dollar allocated to Universities.

I digress, but I look forward to your responses.

They will see it, and it will be a slight negative, but LSDAS GPA is far more important. If yours is 4.0, congratulations on H, and probably YS.

1+

My mistake. Good luck.

Even if the W's count on your LDAS GPA, just write a quick addendum explaining the situation and you will be fine. First the fact that you received all A's at Berkeley for 2 years speaks for itself. Add to that the fact that you had to take care of your mother's health issues (which is a totally legitimate excuse) and thus could not complete all the courses that you signed up for, you will be fine. Situations such as yours are exactly the reason law school applications ask for addenda explaining your transcript.

Samms wrote:After doing two years of Community College,I was accepted to UC Berkeley. I managed to maintain a 4.0 and get a BA in Political Science. I plan to apply for various t14 Law Schools for the 2012 cycle. The only thing holding me back and worrying me is the conflicting information regarding "W's."

I've been maintaining a 40 hour a week job to support my ailing mother (Fibromiligia) and I've had to withdraw from some courses here or there as a result, the aggregate being 7 in about 4 and a half years of study, ALL of them in community college. I know this is above average amount, but Cal didn't care-- so my question is as follows --

Will I be greatly diminished in my ability to get into a t14 school (Harvard, Yale, Standford, etc.)? Most of the people I've talked to say that all Law School's care about is GPA and LSATS, followed by some nebulous factors such as soft ECs, etc, and that the way that Law School grades are calculated makes it so that W's are irrelevant and weightless, and that my LSAT score of 177 will put me over the edge. But there is enough conflicting information to give me pause. Please assume that in the absence of the W's, my soft positives would make it so I would get in. I'm very confident in my EC's.

Anyone who could shed some light on the above would be most helpful.

Thanks

Enjoy Harvard.

Thank you all for the very kind posts, and not just because they are in my favor. The pooled genius and resources of this board never cease to amaze me. Thank you for the kind wishes and I will apply this year. Hopefully I have a good cycle.

not much to add, but damn those are gaudy stats. enjoy HYS.

Samms wrote:Thank you all for the very kind posts, and not just because they are in my favor. The pooled genius and resources of this board never cease to amaze me. Thank you for the kind wishes and I will apply this year. Hopefully I will have a good an amazing cycle.

ftfy

Your cycle will be beyond easy. Apply to HYSCCN, get into most of them, pick a t13 to apply to have a scholarship on the table, probably Michigan or Penn. Choose and profit.