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If you were 'solidly 165-170' on your practice tests and ended up with a 162/159 on real tests then I think indeed retake is TCR. An LSAT in the high 160s or low 170s will give you much better options than you have now.

Retake. You got a lot of studying you can still do. I wouldn't advise doing Kaplan unless you do the advanced class. I really wouldn't advise doing any prep course, unless you have problems with motivating yourself to study (then your best bet is probably either powerscore/testmasters/blueprint). If you haven't worked through the LG bibles (esp for Games and LR), you need to do that. You need to do every single game section multiple times if you are giving up points on LG's. Hopefully there are a few recent tests you haven't taken that you can save for June, but if not, that's a problem you can work around by just redoing some of the more recent ones you took awhile ago near test time. If I were you, if I had already cracked 170 once with this much time left to study for June, I would make it my goal to get some practice scores in the mid 170s. Good luck and start studying now.

rbomb wrote:Need advice for the Fall 2012 cycle...

I'm graduating a top business school with an accounting degree, a CPA, and a 3.66. I took the LSAT last June and got a 162. I took it again in February and got a 159 (sucks because it is undisclosed and I thought I did better).

Schools on my list:
IU-Bloomington
Ohio State
Notre Dame
UNC
Wake Forest

Do I retake (if yes, should I shell out for Kaplan this time)? Do I roll the dice with a 162? I took 20 PT's and was solidly 165-170.

What are your goals? Tax law? Big 4 accounting firm? Any law? You can work for a year at a good job while you're studying for a retake.

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I took a Kaplan course. And my thoughts on it differ greatly from the majority of TLS. I think it actually has some value. I only got a 167 (which is probably viewed as pretty meager to many others on TLS), but I was able to progress from a couple diagnostics significantly lower than that. (one I took hung over, on 2 hours of sleep, and with noisy distractions - 134 and the other I took 3 months later under better conditions but no practice in between and got a 153)

Regardless which is a more accurate diagnostic, I saw some significant improvement. Now, I very well could have received the same results from self-study. I don't think the major value from Kaplan (or any of the other testprep courses) comes from explanation of the approaches or the great amount of material, as you can probably get that cheaper elsewhere and at similar quality. I think the value of Kaplan is in its diagnostic tools and to a lesser extent a location to take proctored tests. I was a big fan of the diagnostic tools that Kaplan offers, allowing you to dissect each of your tests so you can see trends and focus on weak areas. But even if you go with a test prep company, you're going to have to put in a lot of time outside of class.

I'll tell you this, though: I guarantee I worked harder than anybody else in my class. I think there is a natural tendency to take your foot of the pedal if you have a teacher in front of you explaining things.

According to LSAC, retakers improve only by a mean of 2.8 points, which is within the score band, and another 1.9 points on the second retake. Schools are not apt to be impressed with such gains.

For retaking to be beneficial, you MUST identify precisely what went wrong and change it up accordingly. OP is correct that this is tough w/ a February test, because it is undisclosed, but it's not impossible.

You will possibly and even likely improve dramatically if you have identified what you need to do differently, and then do it. This means more than simply to buy another book, take another class, or add another X hours of study.

One of our first blog posts was on whether to retake (LinkRemoved). I hope it helps you to begin the process. All the best, whatever you decide to do.

Apply to Villanova. You will get a lot of money and they have an excellent tax law program.

definitely retake; with every LSAT point comes better prospects/$$$. If you must take a course, judging from what I have heard personally, I would do Testmasters over Kaplan (especially if you haven't completely worked through the bibles yet).

rbomb wrote:Need advice for the Fall 2012 cycle...

I'm graduating a top business school with an accounting degree, a CPA, and a 3.66. I took the LSAT last June and got a 162. I took it again in February and got a 159 (sucks because it is undisclosed and I thought I did better).

Schools on my list:
IU-Bloomington
Ohio State
Notre Dame
UNC
Wake Forest

Do I retake (if yes, should I shell out for Kaplan this time)? Do I roll the dice with a 162? I took 20 PT's and was solidly 165-170.

I know it varies by state, but don't you typically need work experience for a CPA?

As for a test prep company, I wouldn't go to Kaplan. People on here like blueprint (I think). I used the Testmasters books, which were great...and I think I would have done even better if I had been able to take a class (working FT and going to school PT kinda filled up my schedule ).

Good luck!

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A CPA and JD are a powerful combination. Get both. Take your time - do it right. But re-take the LSAT if you have to, in order to get the score you want. Persist and do it. Very few get both a JD and CPA and for a very good reason. If it was easy, we would all do it. You know what you need to do.

rbomb wrote:Okay few more questions...

Will they release my test and what I got wrong on a certain date later on down the road? (Why is the February test undisclosed?)

Correct me if I am wrong, but I am assuming that retaking can only help me, so long as I put the time and effort into it, whether it be with a class or self study. Not sure if there is a Testmasters center where I am going to school, but there is a Kaplan.

And yeah woods, CPA needs two years work experience, but I figured at least having the exam under my belt is good for later on down the road if I do go into accounting.

Thanks all

For the most part, yes - retaking will only help you. There are some schools that still average, but they're in the minority and you're not going to be targeting those any ways.

Other schools will use the top score in their main evaluation, but look at the rest in trying to fully profile the candidate. So theoretically if you got a 162, a 156, and a 155, you may not be as strong as a one-taker who got a 162... But that would probably only matter on the margins.

So what the h**l did you do?

rbomb wrote:Seems simple. But what am I looking at if I fail to break 162 again? Am I big time boned? Or are the law schools I am looking at going to turn a blind eye and just look at the 162?

I've done the two most recent actual official LSAT practice test books that I can take again. And I've skimmed through the bible, but LG has never been an issue. It's RC mainly and LR.

And I am motivated on my own, I just wanted to know what TLS thought of Kaplan.

Malcolm, I want to do either tax or corporate. Goals are work for big law for ten years and then start my own practice. I'm interviewing for jobs at the big 4 and Crowe Horwath, KAtz Sapper, etc. for the gap year. I figured the June LSAT would be best though for early admissions.

Do you miss more than between 1 or 2 questions consistently on LG? If so, you need to stop giving away questions on the most learnable section.

For RC and LR, if accuracy is an issue, take a few sections untimed and make sure you build up accuracy. Consider even giving yourself 40-45 minutes per section to make sure you are being as accurate as possible before speeding up.

You should be solid for schools in the 30-45 range.

Slevin Kelevra 2011 wrote:You should be solid for schools in the 30-45 range.

worthless.

fastforward wrote:According to LSAC, retakers improve only by a mean of 2.8 points, which is within the score band, and another 1.9 points on the second retake. Schools are not apt to be impressed with such gains.

For retaking to be beneficial, you MUST identify precisely what went wrong and change it up accordingly. OP is correct that this is tough w/ a February test, because it is undisclosed, but it's not impossible.

You will possibly and even likely improve dramatically if you have identified what you need to do differently, and then do it. This means more than simply to buy another book, take another class, or add another X hours of study.

One of our first blog posts was on whether to retake (LinkRemoved). I hope it helps you to begin the process. All the best, whatever you decide to do.

So a higher score, even if it's within your scoreband, is not beneficial?

I would think that any improvement can be a significant plus.

Retake, or go to a local T3 for free. I wouldn't go six figures into debt to go to a lower T1 or T2.