Top Law Schools

do i have a realistic shot at T14? also how big of a disadvantage is it really to go T15-25 if trying to go Biglaw?

any insight is appreciated thanks a bunch!

gj24 wrote:do i have a realistic shot at T14? also how big of a disadvantage is it really to go T15-25 if trying to go Biglaw?

any insight is appreciated thanks a bunch!

You have a shot at lower T-14 for sure. As for your other question, it's hard to say. The lower you go, the less of the class that gets placed into biglaw, and thus the higher class rank you must be. But there are lots of other factors to consider as well.

Decent shots at michigan, cornell, and grown.

this cycle or next?

thanks for the input...and it would be next cycle.

It doesn't make sense to go to a school ranked 15-25 if your goal is biglaw. A small minority (that gets vanishingly small toward the bottom of that range) gets biglaw from those schools. It's just not that good of a gamble.

Then again, 15 - 17 aren't really much worse than Georgetown or Cornell. It probably makes more sense to say that you shouldn't go to law school with biglaw as your target unless you're in the top 6, or top 10 with some scholarship.

thank you i appreciate the honesty...i'm just becoming increasingly concerned about the financial decision to go to law to school if i don't have a decent shot at biglaw.

Curious as to your majors ? I know that triple majoring at NU is relatively new & suspect that your class may be the first to be realistically able to take advantage of this option.

Rule11 wrote:It doesn't make sense to go to a school ranked 15-25 if your goal is biglaw. A small minority (that gets vanishingly small toward the bottom of that range) gets biglaw from those schools. It's just not that good of a gamble.

Then again, 15 - 17 aren't really much worse than Georgetown or Cornell. It probably makes more sense to say that you shouldn't go to law school with biglaw as your target unless you're in the top 6, or top 10 with some scholarship.

If you're really Big-law or bust, i.e. you'd rather not be a lawyer than work outside a firm making $160k, then you shouldn't go anywhere but Yale and Stanford. Even Harvard had people strike out at OCI during this recession. If you're more flexible then I think any of the T14 and probably T20 will give you almost 100% shot at some type of paying legal work.

my majors are economics, political science, and legal studies (legal studies is an adjunct major & not as strenuous as a typical major)

i am not biglaw or bust per say, i just want to be confident that my decision to go to law school won't leave my with an overbearing financial burden.

gj24 wrote:my majors are economics, political science, and legal studies (legal studies is an adjunct major & not as strenuous as a typical major)

i am not biglaw or bust per say, i just want to be confident that my decision to go to law school won't leave my with an overbearing financial burden.

If this is the case, maybe consider shooting for a full ride somewhere with a little bit lower of a ranking? (In the 20-40 range?) Surely you will get a full ride somewhere, and if youre only taking out cost of living loans in a loaw COL area, your debt load should be minimal enough that you can afford to take virtually any job you want.

Just an idea, this is what I am doing and I don't regret it at all.

thank you for bringing that up that's definitely an option I am considering I would love to hear some more people's opinions

gj24 wrote:do i have a realistic shot at T14? also how big of a disadvantage is it really to go T15-25 if trying to go Biglaw?

any insight is appreciated thanks a bunch!

Mich, Cornell, and GULC are possible. There isn't a ton of distinction between lower T14 and 15-18 (especially Vanderbilt), but from WUSTL on down there's a larger drop.

You've got good numbers for getting money from lower schools (read: you are not a splitter).

Where do you want to work?

Certain schools are stingier than others, some hand out full rides and some don't, certain state schools are already much cheaper than most law schools, etc. There's a lot to consider when looking for good scholly money.

rad law wrote:

gj24 wrote:do i have a realistic shot at T14? also how big of a disadvantage is it really to go T15-25 if trying to go Biglaw?

any insight is appreciated thanks a bunch!

Mich, Cornell, and GULC are possible. There isn't a ton of distinction between lower T14 and 15-18 (especially Vanderbilt), but from WUSTL on down there's a larger drop.

With your numbers I think you could be looking at around 15k scholarship a year from Vandy, and with it's somewhat similar placement to GULC and Cornell, it may be a good option for you.

Patriot1208 wrote:

rad law wrote:

gj24 wrote:do i have a realistic shot at T14? also how big of a disadvantage is it really to go T15-25 if trying to go Biglaw?

any insight is appreciated thanks a bunch!

Mich, Cornell, and GULC are possible. There isn't a ton of distinction between lower T14 and 15-18 (especially Vanderbilt), but from WUSTL on down there's a larger drop.

With your numbers I think you could be looking at around 15k scholarship a year from Vandy, and with it's somewhat similar placement to GULC and Cornell, it may be a good option for you.

Maybe even more. 168/3.75, $72,000.

thank you everyone this is very helpful

in terms of where I'd want to work, I am from the Midwest and would be content with staying around here, however honestly I am open to going/working anywhere.

gj24 wrote:thank you everyone this is very helpful

in terms of where I'd want to work, I am from the Midwest and would be content with staying around here, however honestly I am open to going/working anywhere.

Then I'd look at how much WashU, Illinois, Notre Dame, and the other state schools there are willing to throw at you. If you want Chicago specifically and are trying to minimize debt, I'd take Illinois/WashU with as much as you can get over ND and the other state schools. But if you want other places in the midwest then take the appropriate state school or the school that gives you the most $.

However, if you really want Chicago specifically I'd say go Michigan if you get.

I think all of this is really just speculation unless you actually get hard data - showing (let's say) what percentage of the top 1/2 of the graduating class gets jobs in big law. Does anyone have this data? "vanishingly small" makes it sound like only 10% of the top 1/2 of a graduating class of Georgetown gets a big-law job. Is this correct? What do these words even mean? Where are some good places to get statistics for this sort of thing (aside from USNews, which i wouldn't trust as far as i can throw it).

Nogameisfair wrote:

Rule11 wrote:It doesn't make sense to go to a school ranked 15-25 if your goal is biglaw. A small minority (that gets vanishingly small toward the bottom of that range) gets biglaw from those schools. It's just not that good of a gamble.

Then again, 15 - 17 aren't really much worse than Georgetown or Cornell. It probably makes more sense to say that you shouldn't go to law school with biglaw as your target unless you're in the top 6, or top 10 with some scholarship.

If you're really Big-law or bust, i.e. you'd rather not be a lawyer than work outside a firm making $160k, then you shouldn't go anywhere but Yale and Stanford. Even Harvard had people strike out at OCI during this recession. If you're more flexible then I think any of the T14 and probably T20 will give you almost 100% shot at some type of paying legal work.

melamine wrote:I think all of this is really just speculation unless you actually get hard data - showing (let's say) what percentage of the top 1/2 of the graduating class gets jobs in big law. Does anyone have this data? "vanishingly small" makes it sound like only 10% of the top 1/2 of a graduating class of Georgetown gets a big-law job. Is this correct? What do these words even mean? Where are some good places to get statistics for this sort of thing (aside from USNews, which i wouldn't trust as far as i can throw it).

Nogameisfair wrote:

Rule11 wrote:It doesn't make sense to go to a school ranked 15-25 if your goal is biglaw. A small minority (that gets vanishingly small toward the bottom of that range) gets biglaw from those schools. It's just not that good of a gamble.

Then again, 15 - 17 aren't really much worse than Georgetown or Cornell. It probably makes more sense to say that you shouldn't go to law school with biglaw as your target unless you're in the top 6, or top 10 with some scholarship.

If you're really Big-law or bust, i.e. you'd rather not be a lawyer than work outside a firm making $160k, then you shouldn't go anywhere but Yale and Stanford. Even Harvard had people strike out at OCI during this recession. If you're more flexible then I think any of the T14 and probably T20 will give you almost 100% shot at some type of paying legal work.

There is NLJ data. All biglaw firms are in the NLJ while not all NLJ firms are biglaw firms, but most pay market. Anyways, the most recent numbers we have are from before the recession and georgetown was doing about 40% in NLJ firms. Taking into account the relaxed hiring I think most people expect those numbers to be around 30% now.

Here: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=108528

melamine wrote:I think all of this is really just speculation unless you actually get hard data - showing (let's say) what percentage of the top 1/2 of the graduating class gets jobs in big law. Does anyone have this data? "vanishingly small" makes it sound like only 10% of the top 1/2 of a graduating class of Georgetown gets a big-law job. Is this correct? What do these words even mean? Where are some good places to get statistics for this sort of thing (aside from USNews, which i wouldn't trust as far as i can throw it).

Most of the evidence on TLS based on actual data is from anecdotes in the OCI threads for various schools. Last OCI, iirc, it seemed like about 1/3 or so of GULC got biglaw.

From what I've read from Observationalist is that every school's OCS has this data and if you are an admitted student you should ask for it (from his post it seemed like only Vandy and maybe another school or two would actually give it to you, though he does believe, and I agree with him, that admitted students should be given this information freely by all schools).

Without the OCS data, there won't be any hard data because it will just be anecdotes though that is all we have.