Top Law Schools

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I don't know anything about patent law and whether you are qualified or not.

That GPA is great though.

With a 167 and a 3.85, you'll have a decent shot (50/50 at least) at Cornell. They raised their median to 168, but still take a lot of 167's EA, especially those with high GPA's. That would probably (key word "probably") be the lowest possible score you could get and still get in to the T14. With a 167 you would also have an outside shot at Berkeley or Michigan, and maybe a couple others (depending on your residency, where you ED, how good your essays are, etc), but not a good one. Your engineering degree will definitely help, but not immensely.

That said, you should aim higher. A 170 or better would put you in good position for any school that's not named Yale, Harvard, Stanford, Columbia, Chicago, or NYU. Still worth an application anywhere though.

Unfortunately, Penn State isn't a great school and your softs are pretty average. This will put you at a small disadvantage at Yale, Stanford, and maybe Harvard. But, that said, a 172-173 or better and you've got a decent shot anywhere.

Just my guesses.

3.85 at Engineering at ANY school is more impressive to me than a 3.85 as a liberal arts major in ANY school.

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ldo5014 wrote:Thanks for the quick reply!

Regrettably, I transferred from NYU to Penn State for the Energy Engineering program. It may have put me at a disadvantage for professional school, but it happens. I forgot to mention I'm also published in a research journal. I know it doesn't change much, but it's something else to throw in the mix when applying, I guess. Also a first generation college student, as well as a first generation Irish-American (immigrant parents). Hoping this counts for something haha.

What LSAT do you think I would need to have a realistic shot at NYU or Columbia?

172+ would give you a good shot. With a 172/3.85+ as an engineering major, if you ED'ed I'd say you would be a lock for NYU.

lawschoolnumbers.com

lawschoolpredictor.com

Your welcome and good luck from a fellow engineer.

Dude with a Purdue 'tar wrote:Your welcome and good luck from a fellow engineer.

Of course you're an engineer.

ATR wrote:

Dude with a Purdue 'tar wrote:Your welcome and good luck from a fellow engineer.

Of course you're an engineer.

Hey, I could have been an agriculture major.

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ldo5014 wrote:

pu_golf88 wrote:lawschoolnumbers.com

lawschoolpredictor.com

Your welcome and good luck from a fellow engineer.

Are these pretty reliable predictors? I mean, would I be kidding myself by only applying to T14 schools if lawschoolpredictor.com said that I was an "admit" at 7-14?

Lawschoolpredictor isn't too reliable with splitters, but seeing how you have a very good GPA I doubt this is the case.

Lawschoolnumbers is all self reported data, but is pretty reliable.

FiveSermon wrote:3.85 at Engineering at ANY school is more impressive to me than a 3.85 as a liberal arts major in ANY school.

While this is true, it is not really any more impressive than a 3.88-3.9 from a LA major to LS.

I am going to add

1. it's hard to target LSAT scores, I think most of us target 180
2. your GPA is going to change. If it goes up to 3.9 then it will ease the need for the LSAT by a couple of points, if it goes down to say 3.8, it is going to require more LSAT points. You technically have 2 more semester of grades to work with (spring and fall). While I expect you to be ok, you never know which way and how much it will swing.

171+ will probably get all but Top 3 or 4
174+ and anywhere is possible
I did engineering at Schreyer, 3.85 is very solid. However it doesnt give you any advantage except maybe as a tiebreaker sort of deal. I would def play it up through your letters of rec though so schools know it is much more intensive than the cushy softness that is psu.

Oops meant to include: 165+ go to gw.

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ldo5014 wrote:

r6_philly wrote:I am going to add

1. it's hard to target LSAT scores, I think most of us target 180
2. your GPA is going to change. If it goes up to 3.9 then it will ease the need for the LSAT by a couple of points, if it goes down to say 3.8, it is going to require more LSAT points. You technically have 2 more semester of grades to work with (spring and fall). While I expect you to be ok, you never know which way and how much it will swing.

1. Haha I hear you. I'm obviously aiming for a perfect score, but I think something in the low 170's is achievable if I spend a moderate amount of time over the summer studying for the LSAT while working.
2. To be honest, these last two semesters will be very easy grade-wise. It's 30 credits and half of them are gen ed's that I neglected to take and/or didn't transfer over from NYU :/

This doesn't have to be answered by just you, more of a general question that I was hoping to get answered here: If I wanted to ED Columbia, would I be able to take the LSAT in October? I know deadline is 15 Nov, but I was wondering if I could just have my scores sent once I took the test. If this is possible, I would have no problem sending all of my transcripts, applications, and letters of rec beforehand.

You can get all of your application ready and send it as soon as you get your score, it should be no problem.

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ldo5014 wrote:
Wow, you are quick! Thank you so much.

NP. Just give it extra time for your LORs and transcripts. Have them processed hopefully by the end of summer. Also remember you may get a request for fall grades, so prepare for that. Columbia asks lots of people.

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ldo5014 wrote:

r6_philly wrote:

ldo5014 wrote:
Wow, you are quick! Thank you so much.

NP. Just give it extra time for your LORs and transcripts. Have them processed hopefully by the end of summer. Also remember you may get a request for fall grades, so prepare for that. Columbia asks lots of people.

Sorry about all the nagging questions, but would they ask to see them in late December? I don't think Penn State provides midterm grade reports.

They want final grades. So they may not give you a ED decision until they see your fall grades in Dec/early Jan. Hopefully it won't come to that. I don't think people have figured out why they request grades so you can't know for sure if you can avoid that. Although, scoring a 172+ will probably help lol.

ldo5014 wrote:

OrdinarilySkilled wrote:171+ will probably get all but Top 3 or 4
174+ and anywhere is possible
I did engineering at Schreyer, 3.85 is very solid. However it doesnt give you any advantage except maybe as a tiebreaker sort of deal. I would def play it up through your letters of rec though so schools know it is much more intensive than the cushy softness that is psu.

Oops meant to include: 165+ go to gw.

From your profile, it seems like you faired very well. Any advice on obtaining letters of rec at Penn State? I'm obviously going to do my thesis advisor, but did you pick someone specifically because he or she deals with Schreyer so they know how to talk it up? I plan on getting 2 letters from Penn State faculty and one from industry. Hoping that's a good plan haha.

I got one from my advisor and I just mentioned discussing the extra requirements the hc has when they asked what would be good to include. It seemed like they probably would have done that anyway so I would definitely pick the people that you have the best relationship with/will write well about you as the first priority and then go from there for what you want them to mention. I did 2 faculty and 1 job -related, it's a typical way to go.

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ldo5014 wrote: Did it matter that both of your faculty letters came from engineering professors? Would you recommend getting one from a professor who deals in something law/english related (all else equal between two faculty)?

It probably won't matter. If there is an English or other non engineering teacher that knows you well then that letter will help show you as a well rounded student, while 2 engineering letters could really hammer home where you are coming from. I went with the second route and dont think having 2 engineering letters hurt me at all. Like I said, i wouldn't stress too much about letters of rec just pick people who know you and will write good letters.
I'll also add that English/law professors will probably be more familiar with what to include in a law school lor (my thesis advisor seemed unsure) so definitely won't hurt to at least get one from someone like that and decide afterward which ones you want to send.