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I know this is worse than the opposite way around, but is it necessarily a fail?

If you want better than a 5% chance at a legitimate legal career, you have to retake. Don't believe me? Read this: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/09/busin ... wanted=all

I'm not trying to be a jerk, but everyone thinking about law school needs to hear this at some point.

It definitely depends on how low the low LSAT is, and how high the high GPA is. That said, what you'll hear from most schools is, "We think you can handle the rigor of our school, BUT, we care too much about our USN&WR ranking so we're, at best, wait-listing you for you to rot there unless we happen to need to pull up our GPA median/75th."

I have, what I consider to be, a very competitive EC profile with a lot of "above and beyond" type things, with WE too, and so far my cycle has been atrocious... and my LSDAS GPA is over 4.

Standard TLS answer here (LinkRemoved)

casper13 wrote:Standard TLS answer here (LinkRemoved)

That was hilarious.

gregthomas77 wrote:

casper13 wrote:Standard TLS answer here (LinkRemoved)

That was hilarious.

+1

I saw that if you have a substantially higher GPA than LSAT, and you also had a low SAT score to get into undergrad, you can show them an official SAT to explain that your low LSAT is not indicative

High LSAT/Low GPA has a generally better shot of admissions than Low LSAT/High GPA. However, low LSAT people can retake and get a higher LSAT, while most low GPA people can't raise their GPA high enough to make a substantive difference in their admissions chances.

jdfrisby wrote:I saw that if you have a substantially higher GPA than LSAT, and you also had a low SAT score to get into undergrad, you can show them an official SAT to explain that your low LSAT is not indicative

They're not really going to care.

Its not a fail.

jspri wrote:Its not a fail. I was worried about my numbers and contemplating not applying to some top 50 schools, but I went ahead with it anyway. So far i've had a pretty good cycle (no rejections yet!) and got into 2 of my top choices (UC Hastings and GMU) with only a 155/3.9 non URM. Despite it being a numbers game, I think a solid personal statement can do wonders for you. Dont be discouraged by your LSAT, just focus on other admissions factors. And for what its worth, I wrote a score addendum addressing my mediocre scores for both the LSAT and SAT.

This is awful advice. Focus on the one admissions factor that matters the most (LSAT) and raise it as high as you can (by retaking if necessary).

Hastings and GMU, if at sticker, are fairly questionable financial decisions.

jspri wrote:Its not a fail. I was worried about my numbers and contemplating not applying to some top 50 schools, but I went ahead with it anyway. So far i've had a pretty good cycle (no rejections yet!) and got into 2 of my top choices (UC Hastings and GMU) with only a 155/3.9 non URM. Despite it being a numbers game, I think a solid personal statement can do wonders for you. Dont be discouraged by your LSAT, just focus on other admissions factors. And for what its worth, I wrote a score addendum addressing my mediocre scores for both the LSAT and SAT.

No offense, but I think that this is bad advice. Dont waste a high gpa. The LSAT is hard for sure, but it can be conquered with time. In this persons case, a 165 would have gotten them into a really school. I always thought of it this way. If you have a high GPA, youve got the hardest part out of the way, because you cant really fix a GPA to a certain extent. The LSAT is what you have the most control right now. Carpe this mother fucker and have a brighter future.

bk187 wrote:
This is awful advice. Focus on the one admissions factor that matters the most (LSAT) and raise it as high as you can (by retaking if necessary).

Hastings and GMU, if at sticker, are fairly questionable financial decisions.

I'm getting Virginia residency this summer for GMU and got some money from Hastings, but that is besides the point.

As far as the original question posed by Danimal, being a reverse splitter is not necessarily a fail. You can still get into some decent/good schools. You may have to pay sticker with a low score, but in my opinion I have no problem paying more rather than going to a school shittier school with money. And I do concede that you can take the lsat again, and if you have the time/want to go for it, but in my case I was over it (I studied intensively and had a tutor, testing around 163-5, but flopped on the exam). If need be I can hold off this cycle and try again next year, but that would mean taking a year off, which is the last thing I want to do.

jspri wrote:

bk187 wrote:
This is awful advice. Focus on the one admissions factor that matters the most (LSAT) and raise it as high as you can (by retaking if necessary).

Hastings and GMU, if at sticker, are fairly questionable financial decisions.

I'm getting Virginia residency this summer for GMU and got some money from Hastings, but that is besides the point.

As far as the original question posed by Danimal, being a reverse splitter is not necessarily a fail. You can still get into some decent/good schools. You may have to pay sticker with a low score, but in my opinion I have no problem paying more rather than going to a school shittier school with money. And I do concede that you can take the lsat again, and if you have the time/want to go for it, but in my case I was over it (I studied intensively and had a tutor, testing around 163-5, but flopped on the exam). If need be I can hold off this cycle and try again next year, but that would mean taking a year off, which is the last thing I want to do.

lol @ Hastings for sticker being a good financial decision. GMU in-state might be passable. Maybe.

Moral_Midgetry wrote:

gregthomas77 wrote:

casper13 wrote:Standard TLS answer here (LinkRemoved)

That was hilarious.

+1

+1

jspri wrote:And I do concede that you can take the lsat again, and if you have the time/want to go for it, but in my case I was over it (I studied intensively and had a tutor, testing around 163-5, but flopped on the exam). If need be I can hold off this cycle and try again next year, but that would mean taking a year off, which is the last thing I want to do.

Seriously, that's the last thing you want to do? The last thing I want to do is let my stubbornness put myself in horrible position where I am spending 6 figures worth of money on a crappy degree. Especially when I could wait a year and go somewhere better or be in less debt. But hey, that's the last thing that I want to do.

In all honesty, it's even stupider not to retake when you actual score was way below your PT's. You have even less of an excuse to retake than those people who scored in their range.

bk187 wrote:

jspri wrote:And I do concede that you can take the lsat again, and if you have the time/want to go for it, but in my case I was over it (I studied intensively and had a tutor, testing around 163-5, but flopped on the exam). If need be I can hold off this cycle and try again next year, but that would mean taking a year off, which is the last thing I want to do.

Seriously, that's the last thing you want to do? The last thing I want to do is let my stubbornness put myself in horrible position where I am spending 6 figures worth of money on a crappy degree. Especially when I could wait a year and go somewhere better or be in less debt. But hey, that's the last thing that I want to do.

In all honesty, it's even stupider not to retake when you actual score was way below your PT's. You have even less of an excuse to retake than those people who scored in their range.

All this is really making me want to retake and take this year off. I'm in this persons same boat(almost perfect GPA) Best school so far = Hastings, and did 4points lower on real LSAT than PT. If I would have read this right after I got my Oct score, I think I would have at least tried again in Dec, but no. I was thick-headed and thought my beautiful GPA/and great softs would push me through. I said, "There is no question they know I can do well at their school," but now I know how much their LSAT range means to them. I hate my life. If only I had someone telling me this information throughout college. Oh yeah, what about that wonderful University I went to. If I ran a university, any student who is declared prelaw should be encouraged to take a 6 month LSAT prep course leading up to the exam for a pass fail type of grade. But then again, why would they want all of their undergrads getting into all these great law schools? Why did I get 1,000 stupid prelaw list serve e-mail’s, and none of them explained this information this well to me/at all. I should have literally skipped class to study for the LSAT. I would be much better off.

Top14Hope wrote:

bk187 wrote:

jspri wrote:And I do concede that you can take the lsat again, and if you have the time/want to go for it, but in my case I was over it (I studied intensively and had a tutor, testing around 163-5, but flopped on the exam). If need be I can hold off this cycle and try again next year, but that would mean taking a year off, which is the last thing I want to do.

Seriously, that's the last thing you want to do? The last thing I want to do is let my stubbornness put myself in horrible position where I am spending 6 figures worth of money on a crappy degree. Especially when I could wait a year and go somewhere better or be in less debt. But hey, that's the last thing that I want to do.

In all honesty, it's even stupider not to retake when you actual score was way below your PT's. You have even less of an excuse to retake than those people who scored in their range.

All this is really making me want to retake and take this year off. I'm in this persons same boat(almost perfect GPA) Best school so far = Hastings, and did 4points lower on real LSAT than PT. If I would have read this right after I got my Oct score, I think I would have at least tried again in Dec, but no. I was thick-headed and thought my beautiful GPA/and great softs would push me through. I said, "There is no question they know I can do well at their school," but now I know how much their LSAT range means to them. I hate my life. If only I had someone telling me this information throughout college. Oh yeah, what about that wonderful University I went to. If I ran a university, any student who is declared prelaw should be encouraged to take a 6 month LSAT prep course leading up to the exam for a pass fail type of grade. But then again, why would they want all of their undergrads getting into all these great law schools? Why did I get 1,000 stupid prelaw list serve e-mail’s, and none of them explained this information this well to me/at all. I should have literally skipped class to study for the LSAT. I would be much better off.

LOL! I know what you mean! I only took my LSAT once because someone told me that retaking would be risky in that I could possibly score lower the second time.... I believed him, so I didn't sign up for December... Then I stared reading TLS threads and learned that retaking is not only acceptable, but preferred in many cases, and I wanted to jump off a building... by then it was too late... I still got into the school I wanted, but I know my score could have been higher, and that KILLS me!

I scored low, but have been accepted into top 50 programs. It is not a fail. I would try to score higher with a retake, but if you still can't get that LSAT higher, do know that you can get into top 50 programs with scores in the 140's....

Not if youre white.