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Just wondering where people suggest I apply. I'd love to go to Penn but I think that might be out of the question. Not URM.

Penn is probably a bit too far a reach, but then again, how are your softs?

Assuming average softs, I think George Washington is a solid enough school that you have a decent shot at.

Are you willing to apply next cycle? I'd perfect my PS and apply early to maximize your chances. I pretty much have the same numbers as you (my GPA is slightly higher) and just got accepted to Berkeley and am still waiting to hear back from every other school. Don't limit yourself to schools outside the T14, but also don't shy away from retaking or waiting out a cycle--even if just to have the opportunity to ED to Penn.

Thanks guys. My softs are pretty decent. I started and run a non-profit providing entertainment and social networking to disabled children. I have very good recs. I had a very good internship in college. I'm just hoping maybe they'll find something to like in my application.

Anyone else with recommendations? I've very open-minded about it at this point. My LSAT puts me just on the cusp of some T-14s but I don't really know what to do.

Unfortunately, you don't have a good chance at any T14. While you're at some of their 25th percentile, the general rule of thumb is that you need to hit their median to have a good chance. Here's a list of GPA/LSAT medians from last year's entering class: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 2&t=128236

If I were you, I'd retake and apply early next cycle. Score a 168, and you'd get Cornell and possibly some others; 169, $$ at Michigan; 170+ and the entire ballgame changes. Don't waste that great GPA.

Thanks for the suggestion. I'm disappointed about the LSAT result but I don't really think that I'd improve dramatically. I was practicing around 169 but that was without the pressure of the testing environment and I don't think I'll be able to do much about my reaction to that. I'm hopefully I can do something along the lines of what my cousin did, go to a slightly lesser school and transfer up. He went to UCLA and transferred to Columbia.

Generally, it's not a good idea to plan on transferring schools before you enroll as a 1L; it's just too hard to predict how you'll do. I disagree about the retake - if you were scoring in the 160s, you can score there on test day. I was averaging high 160s before October but scored 164. I retook in December and hit 169. With that GPA and 169, you will likely get one of MVP. Might as well maximize your chances and apply early next cycle, IMO.

atresia wrote:Generally, it's not a good idea to plan on transferring schools before you enroll as a 1L; it's just too hard to predict how you'll do. I disagree about the retake - if you were scoring in the 160s, you can score there on test day. I was averaging high 160s before October but scored 164. I retook in December and hit 169. With that GPA and 169, you will likely get one of MVP. Might as well maximize your chances and apply early next cycle, IMO.

I might just be an idealist here but if the 25% means 1/4 of people are lower than that, why does it wholly discount you from being admitted? I do have some pretty great softs and I write very well so maybe they could pick up on that? I'm just not a very good standardized test taker under pressure, never have been and likely never will be.

pfrieden wrote:I might just be an idealist here but if the 25% means 1/4 of people are lower than that, why does it wholly discount you from being admitted?

That is correct, but unless you hit the LSAT median, your chances are usually 50-50 at best.

Check out these applicants from last cycle to get an idea of what your cycle may look like: http://search.lawschoolnumbers.com/user ... Cycle=0910

atresia wrote:

pfrieden wrote:I might just be an idealist here but if the 25% means 1/4 of people are lower than that, why does it wholly discount you from being admitted?

That is correct, but unless you hit the LSAT median, your chances are usually 50-50 at best.

Check out these applicants from last cycle to get an idea of what your cycle may look like: http://search.lawschoolnumbers.com/user ... Cycle=0910

Seems so strange. I see a waitlisted then accepted at Penn, a few in at Berkeley, Michigan, BU, WUSTL, Cornell...
I'm not saying I have an extraordinarily good chance but there does appear to be some pretty awesome acceptances with numbers similar to mine. Is it a complete myth, to the best of your knowledge, that the supplemental essays and PS matter at all?

They matter, especially at schools which emphasize a holistic application (i.e. Berkeley), but in general it's not smart to bank on such a boost from essays/PS/LORs. I don't know, your GPA is above 75th for a lot of schools, so maybe you'll be okay.

atresia wrote:They matter, especially at schools which emphasize a holistic application (i.e. Berkeley), but in general it's not smart to bank on such a boost from essays/PS/LORs. I don't know, your GPA is above 75th for a lot of schools, so maybe you'll be okay.

Well I appreciate your time. I'm Philly born and bred, so Penn is about the only school I have my eye set on. Any idea about the amount of money I could expect from Temple or Villanova?

pfrieden wrote:Well I appreciate your time. I'm Philly born and bred, so Penn is about the only school I have my eye set on. Any idea about the amount of money I could expect from Temple or Villanova?

If your heart's set on Penn, then you should ED early next cycle. I saw some poster on TLS who got in with 3.95/166 (IIRC) through ED. You'll get $$$$ at Temple and 'Nova, but make sure you write "Why X?" essays to avoid being yield-protected.

Anyone else with advice out there?

bump

atresia wrote:

pfrieden wrote:Well I appreciate your time. I'm Philly born and bred, so Penn is about the only school I have my eye set on. Any idea about the amount of money I could expect from Temple or Villanova?

If your heart's set on Penn, then you should ED early next cycle. I saw some poster on TLS who got in with 3.95/166 (IIRC) through ED.

This is what I was going to mention. Although I think (I could be totally making this up, my memory does this to me sometimes) that his dad went to Penn Law School also, not sure if that affected anything.

But I would say OP has a better chance if he waits until next year and gets his apps in early.

Also, are you sure you can't do better on the LSAT? I mean, if you get up to 169 (or even better, 170) that would open a few more doors.

It's not that I absolutely can't get my LSAT up a few more points, but I don't want to sit out another year.

pfrieden wrote:It's not that I absolutely can't get my LSAT up a few more points, but I don't want to sit out another year.

IMO whether or not you decide to retake you should wait until next cycle and apply early to maximize your chances. Especially as a reverse splitter.

LSpleaseee wrote:

pfrieden wrote:It's not that I absolutely can't get my LSAT up a few more points, but I don't want to sit out another year.

IMO whether or not you decide to retake you should wait until next cycle and apply early to maximize your chances. Especially as a reverse splitter.

better odds of gettin some cash too...

pfrieden wrote:

atresia wrote:Generally, it's not a good idea to plan on transferring schools before you enroll as a 1L; it's just too hard to predict how you'll do. I disagree about the retake - if you were scoring in the 160s, you can score there on test day. I was averaging high 160s before October but scored 164. I retook in December and hit 169. With that GPA and 169, you will likely get one of MVP. Might as well maximize your chances and apply early next cycle, IMO.

I might just be an idealist here but if the 25% means 1/4 of people are lower than that, why does it wholly discount you from being admitted? I do have some pretty great softs and I write very well so maybe they could pick up on that? I'm just not a very good standardized test taker under pressure, never have been and likely never will be.

Ls generally treat the 25% as the 1st percentile except for URMs

policestate1234 wrote:

pfrieden wrote:

atresia wrote:Generally, it's not a good idea to plan on transferring schools before you enroll as a 1L; it's just too hard to predict how you'll do. I disagree about the retake - if you were scoring in the 160s, you can score there on test day. I was averaging high 160s before October but scored 164. I retook in December and hit 169. With that GPA and 169, you will likely get one of MVP. Might as well maximize your chances and apply early next cycle, IMO.

I might just be an idealist here but if the 25% means 1/4 of people are lower than that, why does it wholly discount you from being admitted? I do have some pretty great softs and I write very well so maybe they could pick up on that? I'm just not a very good standardized test taker under pressure, never have been and likely never will be.

Ls generally treat the 25% as the 1st percentile except for URMs

I'm sorry, I didn't understand that. Could you rephrase it?

pfrieden wrote:

policestate1234 wrote:

pfrieden wrote:

atresia wrote:Generally, it's not a good idea to plan on transferring schools before you enroll as a 1L; it's just too hard to predict how you'll do. I disagree about the retake - if you were scoring in the 160s, you can score there on test day. I was averaging high 160s before October but scored 164. I retook in December and hit 169. With that GPA and 169, you will likely get one of MVP. Might as well maximize your chances and apply early next cycle, IMO.

I might just be an idealist here but if the 25% means 1/4 of people are lower than that, why does it wholly discount you from being admitted? I do have some pretty great softs and I write very well so maybe they could pick up on that? I'm just not a very good standardized test taker under pressure, never have been and likely never will be.

Ls generally treat the 25% as the 1st percentile except for URMs

I'm sorry, I didn't understand that. Could you rephrase it?

There is this great video from the UVA law school association with a former dean who works at lsac. He describes how law school admissions treat the 25 percentile score as the 1st percentile.

So you're saying they treat a 165 like a 120?

pfrieden wrote:So you're saying they treat a 165 like a 120?

No what I'm saying is they treat their 25 percentile range as the absolute min. So if a school had a LSAT range of 169 - 173 the absolute min needed would be a 169 unless you are a urm