URM--165, 4.0 T14 Forum

[chrissyc]

Okay, so first time taking LSAT...got my december score...there will be loads of these threads so my apologies...but here is my list

Harvard
Yale
Berkeley
NYU
Duke
Northwestern
UVA
Chicago
U Penn
Michigan
UF (live in Florida)
Iowa (fee waiver)

Should I apply ANYWHERE else? Money is tight but I will if it's unlikely that I can get in at any of the t14 schools I've already applied at.

added: my personal statement seems to be quite good. I have good softs. first generation college student. single parent home. worked throughout college.

went to UCLA and majored in psych with a minor in education, graduated in 3 years

[chrissyc]

really...no one? shameless bump. sorry for the annoyance but i'm nervous.

[Flanker1067]

Since no one else did I will give you the standard TLS advice:

Since you don't say anything else about your status I will assume you are black, since there is no real room for interpretation on that as URM status. That said, you probably won't get HYS , but everything else is fair game. You probably will get Berk since they love GPA and you should get money from lower t14 schools and anything outside you should get big money.

Standard advice bomb is dropped.

[Fresh]

Since no one else did I will give you the standard TLS advice:

Since you don't say anything else about your status I will assume you are black, since there is no real room for interpretation on your URM status. That said, you probably won't get HYS , but everything else is fair game. You probably will get Berk since they love GPA and you should get money from lower t14 schools and anything outside you should get big money.

Standard advice bomb is dropped.

I disagree. I think you'll get H. Don't know about S & Y though. (This is assuming you're AA). In everywhere else probably.
The thing is, this might be kind of hopeful for an app this late in the game

[chrissyc]

Yep...it is AA. Well half black and half white but yeah. Hopefully harvard, that would be great.

[buckilaw]

URM cycles are notoriously unpredicatable. You should apply to every school in the T14 as well as Vandy, UT, UCLA, and USC. This will max your chances of a favorable admissions outcome. IMO well worth the expense of applying.

[HowdyYall]

any way to postpone to next cycle? Bringing up your LSAT a few points and applying early in the cycle (September/October) would put you at a lock on at least one of HYS

[chrissyc]

Well my dream is duke....HYS would be great but also complicate the situation. I'm getting married soon. I think he would prefer it if I didn't get in actually since the job prospects would change (improve) and we want a family which isn't as easy with a job in biglaw. Id like duke...love duke...or nyu.

HYS....great but I wouldn't even say optimal.

[nigelfrost]

Georgetown.

[chrissyc]

Georgetown....okay....can you elaborate on why?? Not challenging you, just wondering what you think they'd offer.

[Gemini]

Well my dream is duke....HYS would be great but also complicate the situation. I'm getting married soon. I think he would prefer it if I didn't get in actually since the job prospects would change (improve) and we want a family which isn't as easy with a job in biglaw. Id like duke...love duke...or nyu.

HYS....great but I wouldn't even say optimal.

You have great options and can definitely do better than Duke. As for jobs, you can go to Harvard and not do biglaw. You can teach instead. Biglaw isn't required lol. But for the sake of your future and your future kids, please apply to all T-14 and go to the best one that takes you.

ETA: If scholly is important, then I would change my last sentence to go to the best school that gives you $$$.

[nigelfrost]

First off, I was being partially tongue in cheek. But only partially.

Let me give you my assessment of your list: HY are MAYBES. I personally think they'll be a waitlist; both schools have had a SERIOUS increase in URM applications with the recession and your URM status will is your wild card. Likely the same for NYU, Chicago, and Berkeley (and I don't know why anyone who non-IP person would want to go to Berkeley anyway).

After those, it will come down to how many URMs the schools are needing to fill quota. Northwestern, UPenn, and Michigan will likely be an acceptance, but no $. You'll be in at Duke and UVA, but only UVA will be likely to give you cash. Duke hates the world and gives out money arbitrarily.

And that's where G-town comes in. G-town is notorious for throwing cash at URMs. It's an ultra-liberal school (in 2008 nearly EVERY professor made a donation to a Democratic candidate) and it prides itself in being a powerhouse for drawing in a diverse student body. They will accept you and may throw in a little cash to "sweeten the deal."

But...why not apply to all of these just to see? Why are you just getting the fee waiver from the one school? Did you get the LSAC waiver/try to get the LSAC waiver?

[Fresh]

Let me give you my assessment of your list: HY are MAYBES. I personally think they'll be a waitlist; both schools have had a SERIOUS increase in URM applications with the recession and your URM status will is your wild card. Likely the same for NYU, Chicago, and Berkeley (and I don't know why anyone who non-IP person would want to go to Berkeley anyway).

Where did you find out that the recession is driving increased URM applications to Harvard and Yale??? Maybe you're painting the boost in applications to law school in general as a necessary boost in the applications of minorities to the top two schools in the country. It's likely, but I'm wondering if you have a credited source for this.

After those, it will come down to how many URMs the schools are needing to fill quota. Northwestern, UPenn, and Michigan will likely be an acceptance, but no $. You'll be in at Duke and UVA, but only UVA will be likely to give you cash. Duke hates the world and gives out money arbitrarily.

What quotas? Where are the quotas? Show me a quota. Bakke? Are you making stuff up?

And that's where G-town comes in. G-town is notorious for throwing cash at URMs. It's an ultra-liberal school (in 2008 nearly EVERY professor made a donation to a Democratic candidate) and it prides itself in being a powerhouse for drawing in a diverse student body. They will accept you and may throw in a little cash to "sweeten the deal."

lol..


Anyways OP, you have chances at any law school in the country. Some more than others. The sad reality of it is still that African American applicants with GPAs above 3.5 and and an LSAT 165+ are very few. Look at LSN for example - this cycle there are <10 AA applicants with 3.5+ and 165+ (and the consensus about LSN is that it over represents more qualified applicants). Good luck on your cycle

[chrissyc]

No...I didn't get a fee waiver unfortunately. I applied all t14 except g-town, stanford, cornell, and columbia....the cost of living is too great in d.c. don't you think? I guess $$ would offset that cost though.

Nyu would be preferable for NYC so that explains that and I thought stanford would be less likely to accept me than berkeley.

So...I SHOULD apply to g-town?? What about cornell/columbia...with these schools $$$ is a definite because the cities are expensive

[HeavenWood]

No...I didn't get a fee waiver unfortunately. I applied all t14 except g-town, stanford, cornell, and columbia....the cost of living is too great in d.c. don't you think? I guess $$ would offset that cost though.

Nyu would be preferable for NYC so that explains that and I thought stanford would be less likely to accept me than berkeley.

So...I SHOULD apply to g-town?? What about cornell/columbia...with these schools $$$ is a definite because the cities are expensive

Apply now, compare financial aid packages later.

[quetzal_bird]

I'm URM with a 165, but I'm Mexican and my GPA is lower (3.87). However, I got fee waivers from every T-14 school except for YHS and B. Look for hidden fee waivers, check your e-mail for them. Use them when you get them and see what happens. Good luck!

[Kaitlyn]

.......

[chrissyc]

Wow, a lot of people who don't know anything about URM cycles commenting. Chrissy, I'm URM/AA female with a 3.9/160 and have already gotten UVA, Cornell, UMich, and GT amongst others- and I think I have some shot at the CCN schools (but we'll see about that, hehe). I think your chances at CCN are excellent, and you have a decent shot at HYS. I see you at H, especially since they hold most URMs until Spring, so you're not overly disadvantaged there by applying late in the cycle. Good luck!!

ETA: If Duke is your top choice, I'd say you're a lock.

Thanks:..that feels so reassuring. I'm terrified I won't get in anywhere. Whay about aid?? Are scholly chances high?? I am so in tne dark about what level of debt is worth it.

[quetzal_bird]

You can check lsn for information on scholarship money, but its not a great resource for URMs. Keep an eye to when applicants applied, because money runs out later in the cycle. Your best bet is to apply ASAP and then compare offers. While you wait for decisions, do some research on this site, visit schools if they are nearby, and cross your fingers. Your best chance at money is applying sooner rather than later.

[chrissyc]

You can check lsn for information on scholarship money, but its not a great resource for URMs. Keep an eye to when applicants applied, because money runs out later in the cycle. Your best bet is to apply ASAP and then compare offers. While you wait for decisions, do some research on this site, visit schools if they are nearby, and cross your fingers. Your best chance at money is applying sooner rather than later.

I've already applied...now the waiting begins. I hope to get money but getting in is a dream come true in itself.

[NYC_7911]

Well my dream is duke....HYS would be great but also complicate the situation. I'm getting married soon. I think he would prefer it if I didn't get in actually since the job prospects would change (improve) and we want a family which isn't as easy with a job in biglaw. Id like duke...love duke...or nyu.

HYS....great but I wouldn't even say optimal.

I'm obviously not in any position to comment on your personal life, but since you did post this here, I'm just putting it out there that you and your fiance should be having very frank discussions about this. I'm not going to make guesses on your chances of admission at various schools, but you'll likely end up at a very good school. First of all, you certainly are (as another poster said) under no obligation to go into biglaw just because you CAN. Secondly, even if you do, a lot of people successfully manage family life and their career, and it seems like an odd perspective to think of increased chances for success as a complicating factor just because you want a family. Anyway, no advice to give, just pointing out that it might be a topic worth thinking about.

[chrissyc]

Well my dream is duke....HYS would be great but also complicate the situation. I'm getting married soon. I think he would prefer it if I didn't get in actually since the job prospects would change (improve) and we want a family which isn't as easy with a job in biglaw. Id like duke...love duke...or nyu.

HYS....great but I wouldn't even say optimal.

I'm obviously not in any position to comment on your personal life, but since you did post this here, I'm just putting it out there that you and your fiance should be having very frank discussions about this. I'm not going to make guesses on your chances of admission at various schools, but you'll likely end up at a very good school. First of all, you certainly are (as another poster said) under no obligation to go into biglaw just because you CAN. Secondly, even if you do, a lot of people successfully manage family life and their career, and it seems like an odd perspective to think of increased chances for success as a complicating factor just because you want a family. Anyway, no advice to give, just pointing out that it might be a topic worth thinking about.

Thanks for this. We talked about it today again and if I get into harvard or yale then we would go...debt and all. So...I'm crossing my fingers for something great. I have a condo and no one to rent it but still a monthly payment...I'm just telling myself that it is all going to work out and its worth it.