PhD Scientist, low undergrad GPA, 750 GMAT NWJD Forum

[SemperLegal]

I can guess its safe to say that OP never worked a real job...

Sorry snowflake but that grueling list of tasks that included such horrors as lecturing to students, writing papers, and learning things may seem awe-inspiring to you, but its actually in no way impressive and is outmatched in both responsibility and difficulty by literal millions of other positions, many held by those with nothing more than a high school degree.

I am proud to be an academic, but seriously, being a professional student is not really something to brag about to anyone but a fellow perpetual student.

Had to be said

[stugots26]

I appreciate all the other individuals coming to my defense and the defense of the degree. Those condescending little shits hiding behind their computers wouldn't last a day juggling all of the rigors of a modern PhD in Organic Chemistry.

Let's get right down to it. I'm not just changing careers. This is a calculated move to maximize success at the confluence of two fields. I've reached the highest degree status AND practical expertise of a scientist in a huge field that is perpetually necessary - namely, the pharmaceutical industry. I've gained expertise in technical writing along the way.

It is the few - VERY FEW - JD/PhDs with expertise in Organic Chemistry who will handle the pharmaceutical intellectual property clients of IP law firms, or be on retainer at pharmaceutical companies. Having studied many organic patents myself in my paper research, and made several novel compounds myself, I know how much work opportunity there is in this field, and I've had two different Chicago firm partners estimate my probable salaries. That's prior to mentioning my interest in taking the patent bar as well.

If I don't go to NU, I'll hopefully go to Kent, which has one of the top ten IP programs in the nation. When it comes time to graduate, I'll be competing with other JDs for jobs at IP firms, yes, but how many of them will have PhDs making them perpetually invaluable for pharmaceutical clients? How many will be patent agents on top of those?

I'm not worried about job prospects. While it would be nice to think that I found a way into NU and could rest my hat on its name for a job, I'd rather rest it on my achievements and expertise.

[Patriot1208]

I appreciate all the other individuals coming to my defense and the defense of the degree. Those condescending little shits hiding behind their computers wouldn't last a day juggling all of the rigors of a modern PhD in Organic Chemistry.

LOL, whatever makes you feel better.

If I don't go to NU, I'll hopefully go to Kent, which has one of the top ten IP programs in the nation.

Specialty rankings are made up bullshit, anyone will tell you that.

I'm not worried about job prospects.

You really, really, should be if you go to Kent.

[09042014]

You should be a patent agent for a while. The salary is less but you won't be paying off debt. Also when the time comes you can part time at Kent.

If I had a PA job I would have part timed at kent over paying sticker at NU.

[IAFG]

And people say my interests are too niche. There's probably a couple of firms in the whole country with enough Pharos clients to care, and since lawyers do the hiring they might very well take someone with just a BS or MS from a better school with good grades over you, bc that is the way legal hiring goes. Working in-house, they will want someone with legal experience, not lab experience. I would be surprised if your job prospects are nearly so sunny as you imagine them to be.

[stugots26]

In-house positions are going to rather recruit BS or MS science grads? Uh...these companies spend billions each year on research, and they're going to get the best trained people they can to protect their discoveries.

[masochist]

I've reached the highest degree status AND practical expertise of a scientist

You didn't mention making tenure, professor Stugots. When was your appointment to the NAS finalized?

Clearly you have convinced yourself that you Ph.D. is not only an awesome achievement (which it is), but it is also an unrestricted ticket to success in any field (which it isn't). It is arrogant to call doctoral-level studies in any discipline "easy" for anyone, but your belief that you will be "perpetually invaluable" is just as obnoxious.

[09042014]

In-house positions are going to rather recruit BS or MS science grads? Uh...these companies spend billions each year on research, and they're going to get the best trained people they can to protect their discoveries.

You'll be less marketable than a dude with a BS in EE.

[bdubs]

In-house positions are going to rather recruit BS or MS science grads? Uh...these companies spend billions each year on research, and they're going to get the best trained people they can to protect their discoveries.

LOL at the guy who thinks a company will consider a fresh out of law school Chicago-Kent grad the "best" trained patent attorney available

[IAFG]

In-house positions are going to rather recruit BS or MS science grads? Uh...these companies spend billions each year on research, and they're going to get the best trained people they can to protect their discoveries.

No, they are going to take experienced practitioners from law firms.

[Ty Webb]

OP will struggle in law school.

It's easy to see from his tone and his words that he'll be the brand of law student that consistently challenges his professor on what the law "SHOULD BE!!!!" rather than learning to apply the law as it is. He's already shifting the law school admissions game in his mind to accommodate his flawed application packet.

[IAFG]

OP will struggle in law school.

It's easy to see from his tone and his words that he'll be the brand of law student that consistently challenges his professor on what the law "SHOULD BE!!!!" rather than learning to apply the law as it is. He's already shifting the law school admissions game in his mind to accommodate his flawed application packet.

Plus he is a smart guy with a shit LSAT. Law school should be his worst nightmare.

[stugots26]

Talk about logic fallacy. The assumption in my argument regarded the training difference between a BS/MS as previously mentioned and a PhD - regardless of the law school attended.

One of my major sources of support has been a partner at a major Chicago IP law firm, who enthusiastically suggested the level of success I'd have in IP law. I'm assuming that none of you hold such a position. I think I'll trust someone who probably knows a little bit more about the marketplace.

And you know I'll struggle why? I'll be there to learn the law and get out and practice. That's it.

[Patriot1208]

Talk about logic fallacy. The assumption in my argument regarded the training difference between a BS/MS as previously mentioned and a PhD - regardless of the law school attended.

One of my major sources of support has been a partner at a major Chicago IP law firm, who enthusiastically suggested the level of success I'd have in IP law. I'm assuming that none of you hold such a position. I think I'll trust someone who probably knows a little bit more about the marketplace.

And you know I'll struggle why? I'll be there to learn the law and get out and practice. That's it.

You are helpless. There are countless stories of people on here who have been told things by partners that were just flat out wrong. You know why? Because, when that partner went through the hiring process, the legal market was completely different. It's likely, that when that partner went through the process, you could get biglaw from almost every school in the country. It's just not happening that way anymore and many of the older lawyers don't realize this. Unless this guy specifically is planning on giving you a job, then you will likely have a very hard (unless you are at the very top of the class, which I wouldn't count on) time even getting a biglaw interview out of Kent. If you can't get an interview, you can't get a job.

[ThreeYears]

Talk about logic fallacy. The assumption in my argument regarded the training difference between a BS/MS as previously mentioned and a PhD - regardless of the law school attended.

One of my major sources of support has been a partner at a major Chicago IP law firm, who enthusiastically suggested the level of success I'd have in IP law. I'm assuming that none of you hold such a position. I think I'll trust someone who probably knows a little bit more about the marketplace.

And you know I'll struggle why? I'll be there to learn the law and get out and practice. That's it.

You came here and asked for advices on how should you structure your application. I gave you my opinion based on the recent trend of increasing number of science PhDs applying for law school. You think you are special, and you can somehow shortcut your miserable LSAT because of your PhD in OC. That's delusional. My opinion was that you are not special because adcom will put you in a pool with other PhD applicants. And you will be at the end of the list. I personally know (or know of) close to 10 science PhDs currently in law school or pursuing this path, they all have 170+ LSAT scores and the ones already in law school are all in T14. How do you feel about your job prospect now?

[PinkCow]

This thread:



Dude, it sounds like you know exactly what you want to do. So GTFO and do it. Come back in 3 years and tell us all how it went.

[bollandi]

This thread:



Dude, it sounds like you know exactly what you want to do. So GTFO and do it. Come back in 3 years and tell us all how it went.

Word to your mother

[ThreeYears]

I've reached the highest degree status AND practical expertise of a scientist

You didn't mention making tenure, professor Stugots. When was your appointment to the NAS finalized?

Clearly you have convinced yourself that you Ph.D. is not only an awesome achievement (which it is), but it is also an unrestricted ticket to success in any field (which it isn't). It is arrogant to call doctoral-level studies in any discipline "easy" for anyone, but your belief that you will be "perpetually invaluable" is just as obnoxious.

I didn't say doctoral-level studies in any discipline is "easy". I wouldn't know about that for philosophy, history, math or physics. What I know is for biology and chemistry, it is extremely easy to get into the PhD program. That was my original assertion: getting into these programs is easy. Because they need cheap graduate student to do experiments. Plus GRE is an easy test.

Getting the degree at the end is not difficult either, you take two years of classes, at the same time propose projects at the end of second year, write up a NIH grant application style proposal and defend it, finish your project or at least come up with a coherent scientific story based on your data in the time from 2 to 4 years, compose a dissertation and defend it, after all these, PhD will be awarded. I know people like OP in real life, they are usually the slackers who do not work nearly as hard as some of us and they are the ones who complain the most. Annoy the shit out of me in real life as well.

[ThreeYears]

.

[DocHawkeye]

I've reached the highest degree status AND practical expertise of a scientist

You didn't mention making tenure, professor Stugots. When was your appointment to the NAS finalized?

Clearly you have convinced yourself that you Ph.D. is not only an awesome achievement (which it is), but it is also an unrestricted ticket to success in any field (which it isn't). It is arrogant to call doctoral-level studies in any discipline "easy" for anyone, but your belief that you will be "perpetually invaluable" is just as obnoxious.

I didn't say doctoral-level studies in any discipline is "easy". I wouldn't know about that for philosophy, history, math or physics. What I know is for biology and chemistry, it is extremely easy to get into the PhD program. That was my original assertion: getting into these programs is easy. Because they need cheap graduate student to do experiments. Plus GRE is an easy test.

Getting the degree at the end is not difficult either, you take two years of classes, at the same time propose projects at the end of second year, write up a NIH grant application style proposal and defend it, finish your project or at least come up with a coherent scientific story based on your data in the time from 2 to 4 years, compose a dissertation and defend it, after all these, PhD will be awarded. I know people like OP in real life, they are usually the slackers who do not work nearly as hard as some of us and they are the ones who complain the most. Annoy the shit out of me in real life as well.

I gotta say it - I have a PhD in the humanities (well, really, the fine arts) and it, on the whole was pretty easy. Or maybe I'm just f-ing brilliant. I don't expect law school to be the same.

[dextermorgan]

And people say my interests are too niche. There's probably a couple of firms in the whole country with enough Pharos clients to care, and since lawyers do the hiring they might very well take someone with just a BS or MS from a better school with good grades over you, bc that is the way legal hiring goes. Working in-house, they will want someone with legal experience, not lab experience. I would be surprised if your job prospects are nearly so sunny as you imagine them to be.

No, this is the best post ITT.

[IAFG]

And people say my interests are too niche. There's probably a couple of firms in the whole country with enough Pharos clients to care, and since lawyers do the hiring they might very well take someone with just a BS or MS from a better school with good grades over you, bc that is the way legal hiring goes. Working in-house, they will want someone with legal experience, not lab experience. I would be surprised if your job prospects are nearly so sunny as you imagine them to be.

No, this is the best post ITT.

It would be better without auto correct on my phone; obviously meant pharma not Pharos

[ThreeYears]

And people say my interests are too niche. There's probably a couple of firms in the whole country with enough Pharos clients to care, and since lawyers do the hiring they might very well take someone with just a BS or MS from a better school with good grades over you, bc that is the way legal hiring goes. Working in-house, they will want someone with legal experience, not lab experience. I would be surprised if your job prospects are nearly so sunny as you imagine them to be.

No, this is the best post ITT.

It would be better without auto correct on my phone; obviously meant pharma not Pharos

Pharos made sense to me actually. I thought u meant powerful, wealthy and somewhat sophisticated-ly creepy kind of clients.

[SemperLegal]

In-house positions are going to rather recruit BS or MS science grads? Uh...these companies spend billions each year on research, and they're going to get the best trained people they can to protect their discoveries.

Why wouldn't they hire a T6 lawyer and pay a top-notch specialist in the exact field they need to consult for a few grand a year? I never understood 80% of joint degrees, especially in an industry that trends towards multi-person projects.

[StillHerexxx]

I had a professor that was a lawyer and the earned his Ph.D. in English. He said the Ph.D. was a joke compared to law school.

I think of it this way OP. Could you get the job you say you want with the degree you have now? No. What happens when you are a shitty lawyer? You will have lots of debt and be in the same position as before. Seems like you think law school is an easy way to make tons of money. Thats not the real world.