Top Law Schools

166/3.94/non-URM

Am I likely to get money at W&M, BU, BC, GW, and WUSTL? If so, how much? I've checked lawschoolnumbers already, and it seems like I should be good for anywhere between 1/4 and 1/2 ride, but I was just wondering if anyone with similar numbers had personal experience with this past cycle.

Puhaha! You and I both know you will be taking that sticker at Cornell!

whymeohgodno wrote:Puhaha! You and I both know you will be taking that sticker at Cornell!

Sticker at Cornell isn't a great idea but whatever.

Tuition at Cornell is over $51,000. There is sticker, and then there is STICKER. If you can stomach the idea of being nearly a quarter of a million in debt for anything but HYS, then I guess its not a big deal.

W&M (Y), BU (Y), BC (Y), GW(?), and WUSTL (?).

Consider IU-B. Your numbers would pull a full scholly.

dakatz wrote:Tuition at Cornell is over $51,000. There is sticker, and then there is STICKER. If you can stomach the idea of being nearly a quarter of a million in debt for anything but HYS, then I guess its not a big deal.

Never said it wasn't a big deal - I'm not sure where you are even inferring this from.

whymeohgodno wrote:

dakatz wrote:Tuition at Cornell is over $51,000. There is sticker, and then there is STICKER. If you can stomach the idea of being nearly a quarter of a million in debt for anything but HYS, then I guess its not a big deal.

Never said it wasn't a big deal - I'm not sure where you are even inferring this from.

COL in Ithaca is CHEAP. In the grand scheme of things, Cornell ends up being cheaper then a good chunk of the T-14

Kswizzie wrote:

whymeohgodno wrote:

dakatz wrote:Tuition at Cornell is over $51,000. There is sticker, and then there is STICKER. If you can stomach the idea of being nearly a quarter of a million in debt for anything but HYS, then I guess its not a big deal.

Never said it wasn't a big deal - I'm not sure where you are even inferring this from.

COL in Ithaca is CHEAP. In the grand scheme of things, Cornell ends up being cheaper then a good chunk of the T-14

Thats not true. Im renting a crappy place in collegetown here in ithaca for $700/month and im pretty sure thats the cheapest it gets in ithaca. Dont expect to save on COL of living at Cornell compared to elsewhere

HowdyYall wrote:

Kswizzie wrote:

whymeohgodno wrote:

dakatz wrote:Tuition at Cornell is over $51,000. There is sticker, and then there is STICKER. If you can stomach the idea of being nearly a quarter of a million in debt for anything but HYS, then I guess its not a big deal.

Never said it wasn't a big deal - I'm not sure where you are even inferring this from.

COL in Ithaca is CHEAP. In the grand scheme of things, Cornell ends up being cheaper then a good chunk of the T-14

Thats not true. Im renting a crappy place in collegetown here in ithaca for $700/month and im pretty sure thats the cheapest it gets in ithaca. Dont expect to save on COL of living at Cornell compared to elsewhere

Depends on the elsewhere... (see: NYU, Columbia, NW, Chi, Berkeley) are you living alone?... if you can put up with roommates I know for a fact you can go cheaper

whymeohgodno wrote:Puhaha! You and I both know you will be taking that sticker at Cornell!

That would require a chain of ifs: if I am waitlisted or rejected from Penn ED, if I am waitlisted or rejected from UVA and Georgetown EDs, if I don't get into Berkeley, and, of course, if I get into Cornell (I'm confident in my chances, but I know it's no guarantee).

I wouldn't have an issue paying sticker at Cornell, but that's only because my law school will be 100% taken care of.

HeavenWood wrote:

whymeohgodno wrote:Puhaha! You and I both know you will be taking that sticker at Cornell!

That would require a chain of ifs: if I am waitlisted or rejected from Penn ED, if I am waitlisted or rejected from UVA and Georgetown EDs, if I don't get into Berkeley, and, of course, if I get into Cornell (I'm confident in my chances, but I know it's no guarantee).

I wouldn't have an issue paying sticker at Cornell, but that's only because my law school will be 100% taken care of.

Well I'm 99% sure you will get into UVA if you ED.

whymeohgodno wrote:

HeavenWood wrote:

whymeohgodno wrote:Puhaha! You and I both know you will be taking that sticker at Cornell!

That would require a chain of ifs: if I am waitlisted or rejected from Penn ED, if I am waitlisted or rejected from UVA and Georgetown EDs, if I don't get into Berkeley, and, of course, if I get into Cornell (I'm confident in my chances, but I know it's no guarantee).

I wouldn't have an issue paying sticker at Cornell, but that's only because my law school will be 100% taken care of.

Well I'm 99% sure you will get into UVA if you ED.

I like those odds, but I can't help but feel that's an overconfident estimation.

HeavenWood wrote:

whymeohgodno wrote:

HeavenWood wrote:

whymeohgodno wrote:Puhaha! You and I both know you will be taking that sticker at Cornell!

That would require a chain of ifs: if I am waitlisted or rejected from Penn ED, if I am waitlisted or rejected from UVA and Georgetown EDs, if I don't get into Berkeley, and, of course, if I get into Cornell (I'm confident in my chances, but I know it's no guarantee).

I wouldn't have an issue paying sticker at Cornell, but that's only because my law school will be 100% taken care of.

Well I'm 99% sure you will get into UVA if you ED.

I like those odds, but I can't help but feel that's an overconfident estimation.

I don't think UVA has rejected a 3.9+ 165+ ED applicant lol.

whymeohgodno wrote: I don't think UVA has rejected a 3.9+ 165+ ED applicant lol.

Maybe not on LSN, but LSN isn't a full picture. I'm confident that I have a shot, maybe even a decent shot, but I doubt they'll just let me in. I'm out of state, and wouldn't be applying until late December/early January.

HeavenWood wrote:

whymeohgodno wrote: I don't think UVA has rejected a 3.9+ 165+ ED applicant lol.

Maybe not on LSN, but LSN isn't a full picture. I'm confident that I have a shot, maybe even a decent shot, but I doubt they'll just let me in. I'm out of state, and wouldn't be applying until late December/early January.

Why so late?

whymeohgodno wrote:

HeavenWood wrote:

whymeohgodno wrote: I don't think UVA has rejected a 3.9+ 165+ ED applicant lol.

Maybe not on LSN, but LSN isn't a full picture. I'm confident that I have a shot, maybe even a decent shot, but I doubt they'll just let me in. I'm out of state, and wouldn't be applying until late December/early January.

Why so late?

I'm applying to Penn ED first.

You should be fine with a late UVA ED submission. If I remember correctly, last cycle they let in more ED applicants that helped their 75th percentile for GPA than those for the LSAT when it was later in the cycle because they get a lot of lower GPA, high LSAT ED applicants.

i think sticker at cornell is better than half scholarship at wustl/bc/bu level. I think it s even when you get to full scholarship.

Cornell doubles your chances of getting biglaw/meaningful job as compared to wustl/bc/bu/emory......

There is a huge gap between T14 vandy and WUSTL/fordham/bu/bc/gw....

Ive heard ghost stories of people at cornell getting biglaw from median and below. I ve been specifically told that you need top 1/3 at wustl to be competitive for OCI.

thexfactor wrote:i think sticker at cornell is better than half scholarship at wustl/bc/bu level. I think it s even when you get to full scholarship.

Cornell doubles your chances of getting biglaw/meaningful job as compared to wustl/bc/bu/emory......

There is a huge gap between T14 vandy and WUSTL/fordham/bu/bc/gw....

Ive heard ghost stories of people at cornell getting biglaw from median and below. I ve been specifically told that you need top 1/3 at wustl to be competitive for OCI.

What about between t14 vandy and Texas and UCLA?

thexfactor wrote:i think sticker at cornell is better than half scholarship at wustl/bc/bu level. I think it s even when you get to full scholarship.

Cornell doubles your chances of getting biglaw/meaningful job as compared to wustl/bc/bu/emory......

There is a huge gap between T14 vandy and WUSTL/fordham/bu/bc/gw....

Ive heard ghost stories of people at cornell getting biglaw from median and below. I ve been specifically told that you need top 1/3 at wustl to be competitive for OCI.

Not sure I'd agree with this advice. Sticker at Cornell means that you'd really have to get a solid Biglaw job or you're financially screwed. A half or 3/4 scholly at wustl gives you much more flexibility, expecially since your home market is in the not as saturated midwest market, as opposed to NYC, where you'd have to compete with, well, everyone ranked higher than you more or less.

Besides, the prospects for the median or below Cornell grad aren't looking too great right now - you'll have a lot of people on this board debating about whether sticker is worth it even at Penn (I personally think it is). Cornell/GULC are pretty safe to say bad options at sticker, despite the fact that they're T14. IMHO.

hellojd wrote:

thexfactor wrote:i think sticker at cornell is better than half scholarship at wustl/bc/bu level. I think it s even when you get to full scholarship.

Cornell doubles your chances of getting biglaw/meaningful job as compared to wustl/bc/bu/emory......

There is a huge gap between T14 vandy and WUSTL/fordham/bu/bc/gw....

Ive heard ghost stories of people at cornell getting biglaw from median and below. I ve been specifically told that you need top 1/3 at wustl to be competitive for OCI.

Not sure I'd agree with this advice. Sticker at Cornell means that you'd really have to get a solid Biglaw job or you're financially screwed. A half or 3/4 scholly at wustl gives you much more flexibility, expecially since your home market is in the not as saturated midwest market, as opposed to NYC, where you'd have to compete with, well, everyone ranked higher than you more or less.

Besides, the prospects for the median or below Cornell grad aren't looking too great right now - you'll have a lot of people on this board debating about whether sticker is worth it even at Penn (I personally think it is). Cornell/GULC are pretty safe to say bad options at sticker, despite the fact that they're T14. IMHO.

Not a bad post overall, but am getting pretty tired of this distinction. I do not think I would have paid sticker at either Penn or Cornell, but the risk is essentially the same. Most people at either school have some shot at big law. A certain percentage at each school will not get it. I am not sure the calculus changes that much based on a few percentage points. I don't really understand the reasoning "I will risk 200+K for a 47% chance at Biglaw, but I have to draw the line at 42%." (note: I know these are not the exact numbers, but the difference is somewhere in that ballpark).

What was the quality of your undergrad?

KMaine wrote:

hellojd wrote:

thexfactor wrote:i think sticker at cornell is better than half scholarship at wustl/bc/bu level. I think it s even when you get to full scholarship.

Cornell doubles your chances of getting biglaw/meaningful job as compared to wustl/bc/bu/emory......

There is a huge gap between T14 vandy and WUSTL/fordham/bu/bc/gw....

Ive heard ghost stories of people at cornell getting biglaw from median and below. I ve been specifically told that you need top 1/3 at wustl to be competitive for OCI.

Not sure I'd agree with this advice. Sticker at Cornell means that you'd really have to get a solid Biglaw job or you're financially screwed. A half or 3/4 scholly at wustl gives you much more flexibility, expecially since your home market is in the not as saturated midwest market, as opposed to NYC, where you'd have to compete with, well, everyone ranked higher than you more or less.

Besides, the prospects for the median or below Cornell grad aren't looking too great right now - you'll have a lot of people on this board debating about whether sticker is worth it even at Penn (I personally think it is). Cornell/GULC are pretty safe to say bad options at sticker, despite the fact that they're T14. IMHO.

Not a bad post overall, but am getting pretty tired of this distinction. I do not think I would have paid sticker at either Penn or Cornell, but the risk is essentially the same. Most people at either school have some shot at big law. A certain percentage at each school will not get it. I am not sure the calculus changes that much based on a few percentage points. I don't really understand the reasoning "I will risk 200+K for a 47% chance at Biglaw, but I have to draw the line at 42%." (note: I know these are not the exact numbers, but the difference is somewhere in that ballpark).

I dont know if it is a few point difference between WUSTL/uiuc and Cornell.... the ranking difference might be just a couple of spots, but placement is a day n night difference... not to be confused with kid cuddi's song....

More like mid 40s% vs 20%.......

Even if you get a full ride that is still close to 40k you will need to take out in loans. 40k vs 160k. One will give you a better chance to pay it back than the other.....

The problem with law is that you either get the 100k+ jobs, 30k job or no job. There is a much high chance of the latter two at Wustl/uiuc....

hellojd wrote:

thexfactor wrote:i think sticker at cornell is better than half scholarship at wustl/bc/bu level. I think it s even when you get to full scholarship.

Cornell doubles your chances of getting biglaw/meaningful job as compared to wustl/bc/bu/emory......

There is a huge gap between T14 vandy and WUSTL/fordham/bu/bc/gw....

Ive heard ghost stories of people at cornell getting biglaw from median and below. I ve been specifically told that you need top 1/3 at wustl to be competitive for OCI.

Not sure I'd agree with this advice. Sticker at Cornell means that you'd really have to get a solid Biglaw job or you're financially screwed. A half or 3/4 scholly at wustl gives you much more flexibility, expecially since your home market is in the not as saturated midwest market, as opposed to NYC, where you'd have to compete with, well, everyone ranked higher than you more or less.

Besides, the prospects for the median or below Cornell grad aren't looking too great right now - you'll have a lot of people on this board debating about whether sticker is worth it even at Penn (I personally think it is). Cornell/GULC are pretty safe to say bad options at sticker, despite the fact that they're T14. IMHO.

A half ride to WUSTL will still leave you 110k+ in debt with a sub 20% chance at finding biglaw.

Sticker at Cornell leaves you 200k in debt with a 40%+ chance at finding biglaw.

I wouldn't say one is that much better than the other.

If you want to be quantitative, do a cost benefit analysis using available data. Calculate the ratio between present value of tuition paid to present value of potential future earning (using reported averagess). Because the big law percentage is lower at the lower ranked school, the average earning power at graduation is certainly less (because median starting biglaw is 160k across the board). Then pick the average interest rate as the time discount rate, and do an analysis for 1 year, 5 year, 10 year out and see how it comes out. That's how businesses make decisions between options FWIW.

ETA, with that calculation, you can estimate how much the the cost needs to be reduced to justify the lower earning power. I am planning to use this to compare offers.