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3.8/167, good ECs, solid LORs and PS, current Gtown undergrad

Of the following schools which should I apply now to with my current stats and have a decent (let's say 50%) shot at and which to almost have to retake to have any shot at (PT median was 171, not sure how confident I am that I can get up to it though on a retake and afraid the longer I wait till Jan will hurt me)?

Penn, Duke, Northwestern, UVA, Cornell, Georgetown, UCLA, USC, Vandy, BU, BC, GW

Likely In: BU/BC/USC
Shot: Cornell, UCLA, UVA (ED)
Likely Out: The Rest

Cornell, Texas, USC, BU, BC & GWU

Cooley, Phoenix, Idaho.

CanadianWolf wrote:Cornell, Texas, USC, BU, BC & GWU

Okay cool thanks. Do you think undergrad at Gtown gives any bump to GULC?

Would it be a sound strategy to apply to schools that I have a decent shot at now with my current LSAT and hold on the others, retake in December and apply in January if I go up?

I'm just fearful of one of two things. I'll retake get the same score (or within a point or two) and have waited so long that I disadvantaged myself or even worse go down a few points (unlikely given my PTs but not impossible) and be highly questionable at even BC/BU/GW.

Duke, Northwester, UVA, and G-Town are almost certainly rejections. Unfortunately, the schools in that range really value that 170 magic number. While a 169 might get you in due to your high GPA, a 167 is just a bit short. Trust me, I know from experience. Cornell you have a shot at, but its a toss up seeing as they waitlisted most 167's last year. You have solid shot at BU, BC, and GW, and might get a scholarship from one of them. BU is very generous with scholarship money. A bunch of my classmates here passed up T-14 schools because of the scholarship money BU throws around. UCLA and USC are both toss-ups as well. Make sure to apply to some safeties. Seems like you just listed out reaches and targets.

dakatz wrote:Duke, Northwester, UVA, and G-Town are almost certainly rejections. Unfortunately, the schools in that range really value that 170 magic number. While a 169 might get you in due to your high GPA, a 167 is just a bit short. Trust me, I know from experience. Cornell you have a shot at, but its a toss up seeing as they waitlisted most 167's last year. You have solid shot at BU, BC, and GW, and might get a scholarship from one of them. BU is very generous with scholarship money. A bunch of my classmates here passed up T-14 schools because of the scholarship money BU throws around. UCLA and USC are both toss-ups as well. Make sure to apply to some safeties. Seems like you just listed out reaches and targets.

Thanks. I want to ultimately practice/live in DC or Boston. As far as safeties go I would have a hard time convincing myself to attend a school lower than BC/BU/GW, not out of elitism but a real fear that I wouldn't be able to pay loans off / get a job when I graduate. Since you go to school in Boston, how's Northeastern seen?? I would really only even consider it on a full scholarship (or pretty close to one).

mikey101 wrote:

dakatz wrote:Duke, Northwester, UVA, and G-Town are almost certainly rejections. Unfortunately, the schools in that range really value that 170 magic number. While a 169 might get you in due to your high GPA, a 167 is just a bit short. Trust me, I know from experience. Cornell you have a shot at, but its a toss up seeing as they waitlisted most 167's last year. You have solid shot at BU, BC, and GW, and might get a scholarship from one of them. BU is very generous with scholarship money. A bunch of my classmates here passed up T-14 schools because of the scholarship money BU throws around. UCLA and USC are both toss-ups as well. Make sure to apply to some safeties. Seems like you just listed out reaches and targets.

Thanks. I want to ultimately practice/live in DC or Boston. As far as safeties go I would have a hard time convincing myself to attend a school lower than BC/BU/GW, not out of elitism but a real fear that I wouldn't be able to pay loans off / get a job when I graduate. Since you go to school in Boston, how's Northeastern seen?? I would really only even consider it on a full scholarship (or pretty close to one).

I can't say I know too much about Northeastern. From what I have heard, it is VERY public-interest focused. I talked to some students who wanted to go into private practice, and they said the options weren't too great, and they didn't get the same support that their PI classmates got from the administration. I heard this from a small sample of students so perhaps it is off base. However, I am fairly certain that one of BU or BC (perhaps both) will accept you, so you should have options in Boston if you choose to come up here.

I have the same exact numbers as you! LSN confirms that T14 (less Cornell) is a major stretch and highly unlikely for us. UVA ED seems like the best shot in, but still the odds are strongly against getting in.

Cornell/Vandy-- Last year they did waitlist the majority of 167's, but the acceptance rate gets much stronger at 3.8+. Toss up at both, with odds slightly higher at Vandy

USC/BU/BC/GW--Virtually a lock based on last year's data, provided you go complete pre-New Year's. Looking at potentially 60k from BU/BC and 105k from GW if we're lucky.

fitterhappier wrote:I have the same exact numbers as you! LSN confirms that T14 (less Cornell) is a major stretch and highly unlikely for us. UVA ED seems like the best shot in, but still the odds are strongly against getting in.

Cornell/Vandy-- Last year they did waitlist the majority of 167's, but the acceptance rate gets much stronger at 3.8+. Toss up at both, with odds slightly higher at Vandy

USC/BU/BC/GW--Virtually a lock based on last year's data, provided you go complete pre-New Year's. Looking at potentially 60k from BU/BC and 105k from GW if we're lucky.

Sorry but Vandy is harder to get into Cornell with his numbers. Their median LSAT last year was a 169 compared to a 168 for Cornell.

whymeohgodno wrote:

fitterhappier wrote:I have the same exact numbers as you! LSN confirms that T14 (less Cornell) is a major stretch and highly unlikely for us. UVA ED seems like the best shot in, but still the odds are strongly against getting in.

Cornell/Vandy-- Last year they did waitlist the majority of 167's, but the acceptance rate gets much stronger at 3.8+. Toss up at both, with odds slightly higher at Vandy

USC/BU/BC/GW--Virtually a lock based on last year's data, provided you go complete pre-New Year's. Looking at potentially 60k from BU/BC and 105k from GW if we're lucky.

Sorry but Vandy is harder to get into Cornell with his numbers. Their median LSAT last year was a 169 compared to a 168 for Cornell.

Though the sample is pretty small, last year's cycle shows that 3.8+/167's had more success at Vandy than Cornell--

http://vanderbilt.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats/0910/
http://cornell.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats/0910/

fitterhappier wrote:

whymeohgodno wrote:

fitterhappier wrote:I have the same exact numbers as you! LSN confirms that T14 (less Cornell) is a major stretch and highly unlikely for us. UVA ED seems like the best shot in, but still the odds are strongly against getting in.

Cornell/Vandy-- Last year they did waitlist the majority of 167's, but the acceptance rate gets much stronger at 3.8+. Toss up at both, with odds slightly higher at Vandy

USC/BU/BC/GW--Virtually a lock based on last year's data, provided you go complete pre-New Year's. Looking at potentially 60k from BU/BC and 105k from GW if we're lucky.

Sorry but Vandy is harder to get into Cornell with his numbers. Their median LSAT last year was a 169 compared to a 168 for Cornell.

Though the sample is pretty small, last year's cycle shows that 3.8+/167's had more success at Vandy than Cornell--

http://vanderbilt.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats/0910/
http://cornell.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats/0910/

Wow you're right. Weird considering how Vandy has higher GPA+LSAT median than Cornell. One of the two schools becoming holistic?

fitterhappier wrote: Though the sample is pretty small, last year's cycle shows that 3.8+/167's had more success at Vandy than Cornell--

http://vanderbilt.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats/0910/
http://cornell.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats/0910/

Medians went up at Vandy bro. 168 last year 169 this year. 167 might not do it this year. Last year OP would have been golden.

rad law wrote:

fitterhappier wrote: Though the sample is pretty small, last year's cycle shows that 3.8+/167's had more success at Vandy than Cornell--

http://vanderbilt.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats/0910/
http://cornell.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats/0910/

Medians went up at Vandy bro. 168 last year 169 this year. 167 might not do it this year. Last year OP would have been golden.

LSN for Vandy is a bit weird. When you look at their medians for last year's accepted students it seems like LSN would have much more rejections/WL than it does at 167/168.

rad law wrote:

fitterhappier wrote: Though the sample is pretty small, last year's cycle shows that 3.8+/167's had more success at Vandy than Cornell--

http://vanderbilt.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats/0910/
http://cornell.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats/0910/

Medians went up at Vandy bro. 168 last year 169 this year. 167 might not do it this year. Last year OP would have been golden.

Any hard data on median going up to 169 this year? This blows.

fitterhappier wrote:

rad law wrote:

fitterhappier wrote: Though the sample is pretty small, last year's cycle shows that 3.8+/167's had more success at Vandy than Cornell--

http://vanderbilt.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats/0910/
http://cornell.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats/0910/

Medians went up at Vandy bro. 168 last year 169 this year. 167 might not do it this year. Last year OP would have been golden.

Any hard data on median going up to 169 this year? This blows.

Right here:
http://law.vanderbilt.edu/prospective-s ... index.aspx

It's amazing how competitive Vanderbilt has become in the past decade.

HeavenWood wrote:

fitterhappier wrote:

rad law wrote:

fitterhappier wrote: Though the sample is pretty small, last year's cycle shows that 3.8+/167's had more success at Vandy than Cornell--

http://vanderbilt.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats/0910/
http://cornell.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats/0910/

Medians went up at Vandy bro. 168 last year 169 this year. 167 might not do it this year. Last year OP would have been golden.

Any hard data on median going up to 169 this year? This blows.

Right here:
http://law.vanderbilt.edu/prospective-s ... index.aspx

It's amazing how competitive Vanderbilt has become in the past decade.

Though the higher median seems to demonstrate that 3.8+/167 is in for a world of hurt this cycle, the limited LSN still shows that these numbers were very competitive despite being 2 points below the LSAT median. Generally speaking, though I'm not crazy about the overall odds, I feel like being a hair off of the 75% GPA and above the 25% LSAT puts an applicant in solid contention.

fitterhappier wrote:

HeavenWood wrote:
Right here:
http://law.vanderbilt.edu/prospective-s ... index.aspx

It's amazing how competitive Vanderbilt has become in the past decade.

Though the higher median seems to demonstrate that 3.8+/167 is in for a world of hurt this cycle, the limited LSN still shows that these numbers were very competitive despite being 2 points below the LSAT median. Generally speaking, though I'm not crazy about the overall odds, I feel like being a hair off of the 75% GPA and above the 25% LSAT puts an applicant in solid contention.

What limited LSN data? It's all from last cycle. We have absolutely no clue. I'd say 50/50 shot. Best of luck.

Thanks Everyone for all your input, I think I've decided to apply to all my schools from Cornell on down (including GULC) with my current score and have them evaluate now. And then any other schools above Cornell apply now and have them hold for Dec LSAT.

If anyone sees a serious flaw with that logic let me know!

mikey101 wrote:Thanks Everyone for all your input, I think I've decided to apply to all my schools from Cornell on down (including GULC) with my current score and have them evaluate now. And then any other schools above Cornell apply now and have them hold for Dec LSAT.

If anyone sees a serious flaw with that logic let me know!

If you're certain you can do better in December, Stick to applying to BU, BC, and USC. You're at/above their medians. While you have a good shot at Cornell and UCLA, they could just as easily ding you.

HeavenWood wrote:

mikey101 wrote:Thanks Everyone for all your input, I think I've decided to apply to all my schools from Cornell on down (including GULC) with my current score and have them evaluate now. And then any other schools above Cornell apply now and have them hold for Dec LSAT.

If anyone sees a serious flaw with that logic let me know!

If you're certain you can do better in December, Stick to applying to BU, BC, and USC. You're at/above their medians. While you have a good shot at Cornell and UCLA, they could just as easily ding you.

So you're saying that the fact that I'm retaking the test in December, while still asking a school to evaluate my application as it stands now will have a negative impact on my application in the case of schools that are in target range?

mikey101 wrote:

HeavenWood wrote:

mikey101 wrote:Thanks Everyone for all your input, I think I've decided to apply to all my schools from Cornell on down (including GULC) with my current score and have them evaluate now. And then any other schools above Cornell apply now and have them hold for Dec LSAT.

If anyone sees a serious flaw with that logic let me know!

If you're certain you can do better in December, Stick to applying to BU, BC, and USC. You're at/above their medians. While you have a good shot at Cornell and UCLA, they could just as easily ding you.

So you're saying that the fact that I'm retaking the test in December, while still asking a school to evaluate my application as it stands now will have a negative impact on my application in the case of schools that are in target range?

I'm sorry, I misunderstood. I thought you meant you were going to send off your apps from Cornell on down without waiting for your December test score.

I mean that is what I'm saying. Apply now to the schools that I have around a 50% shot at admission but still retake in December and apply to schools above Cornell if I get an LSAT bump. I'm fairly confident I can get a few more points but not confident enough to risk holding off all my apps until that point. Does this make sense?

mikey101 wrote:I mean that is what I'm saying. Apply now to the schools that I have around a 50% shot at admission but still retake in December and apply to schools above Cornell if I get an LSAT bump. I'm fairly confident I can get a few more points but not confident enough to risk holding off all my apps until that point. Does this make sense?

If you know you can significantly improve your score, don't chance things on a coin flip. If you don't mind the possibility of paying sticker at BC, BU, and USC, send in everything to them now. Wait on the rest, see your results, and reapply next year if necessary.

I think you screwed up by taking the LSAT my friend, but you might still be able to get into Georgetown's Early Assurance program:

http://careerweb.georgetown.edu/prelaw/ ... 10291.html