Top Law Schools

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Almost zero chance at YH, but reasonable shot at Stanford.

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I disagree that your chances are "almost zero". I think with your background you could possibly get admitted to Y or H. However, the odds are fairly slim, and an LSAT retake would help if you were sure you could raise your score by at least 2-3 points.

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Normally the only softs that can really propel you into YSH with your type of numbers are things like Rhodes Scholar, Olympic athlete, etc. Things like Teach for America help too, but not as much. A couple of publications is impressive, and it can put you above some applicants, but its nothing that's going to wow an admissions committee. Your relatively lower LSAT is going to hinder you unfortunately.
I think you'll get into one of the three though. Most likely S.

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If your practice tests were in the upper 170 range, or if you can get them up that high, you should retake. Every point counts when you're applying to those schools. I take it you're dying to get in to Y or H?

All of this advice above is only somewhat helpful...there are many folks at YHS (myself included) with worse numbers (for me, in both LSAT and GPA) and no real graduate experience.

An LSAT increase will help you marginally. Writing a compelling application for each school will be much more critical. I'd say your chances are best here at SLS then HLS-YLS, but your stats are great. Lots of folks (including those with your credentials or better) will not get in, but at this range, it's as important to create a compelling application as it is to increase your LSAT a couple of points.

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Kretzy is right, if you have an exceptional PS and application, that can really help your chances. I'm just going off of what an average PhD applicant with an average application (not that PhD applicants are at all average) would need to get in. If you can tie your research/publications into your PS that may be effective.

I would suspect there are not many PhDs applying in the first place and even less likely that they're in the same field. Also, an impressive resume can help put you ahead of other PhD applicants.

3.85/171 (4.05 won't mean much). Out at HY, their medians are 3.9/173. OP below both. For S, need a few more points on LSAT, so GPA just below median, LSAT above 75%.

people are writing the OP off a bit too quickly here

Y is prob out, but i think HLS is no where near as low a chance as everyone is making it out to be (SLS is prob the best shot out of the 3 as most have stated)

OP's publications and PhD really make him stand out; his GPA is below median but above 25%; his LSAT isnt below 25% either

imo, if he has great LORs and a PS, the adcomms will be looking to find a reason to admit him -- he has a shot (not a great one) imo if he applies real early and w/ a great overall package and a decent shot of getting off the waitlist

but as everyone else has said, the only thing OP can really do now that is of noticeable significance is bump up his LSAT 2-3 pts

no i dont think he needs 175+, just a 173 prob enough because, like i said, w/ his other credentials (assuming his overall package shines), adcomms would rather have a reason to admit him than ding him

I agree with Kretzy. I think the OP has a fighting chance at all of YHS and the effort/risk/reward ratio for improving on the LSAT likely isn't worth it. I don't know what the average LSAT/GPA for Ph.D. students admitted to these schools is but I suspect that it's a bit lower than the average LSAT/GPA for kids straight out of undergrad.

Write a strong personal statement about why law is a logical progression from your current field. You need to come off as being intellectually engaged with legal topics. The major worry from the committee will be that you're avoiding a bad job market, that you're trying to avoid "the real world" for a bit longer, or that you're intellectually aimless. This will be easier to demonstrate coming out of some disciplines than others and you'll be helped if you've done prior work on legal issues.

I'd also suggesting writing a strong academic CV. If you have multiple projects, awards, publications, conference activities, professional society positions, etc.. then you should list them all, even if it takes more than two pages. As a Ph.D. student you should be able to build a resume that overpowers the undergraduate applicants.

Where are your publications? If they are peer reviewed papers in serious top tier journals then they will almost certainly be considered very favorably and you'll want to emphasize this in your personal statement by referring to your publications with language like "the flagship journal of my field."

You also need to get letters of recommendation from committee members that speak to your interest in the law and your ability to become a strong legal scholar.

Finally, a lot will come down to luck (is somebody else from your field with better numbers or a more impressive resume also applying? Does your proposed research excite the random Yale faculty member chosen to read your application?). You can hedge a little bit against the first by applying early.

Good luck!

As (almost) always, I agree with Kretzy and notanumber. Effort that would be spent retaking should be directed at writing compelling essays/gathering strong LORs/etc.

BioEBear2010 wrote:As (almost) always, I agree with Kretzy and notanumber. Effort that would be spent retaking should be directed at writing compelling essays/gathering strong LORs/etc.

haha now that you guys mention it, it has made me glance at the calendar and -shock- it is already sept 6! technically apps to most of these schools have either opened or will by the end of the month right?

in that case, if it is a question of either/or and not 'both'...you might be better off here focusing on your PS, resume, LORs, etc. to make it a very compelling app package

if its minimal effort, a few pts on LSAT would also push you over the top...prob the same amount as successfully doing ^ is, so doing both would put you in a solid position -- point is, you're still in the running regardless

I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that the OP's first language is not English.

If that is the case, I think it is especially important to work on the PS and LORs, and forget about the LSAT. You'll need to demonstrate that you can excel in a field where command of the English language is essential (it isn't a coincidence that Philosophy and English grads do well in admissions). I say LORs as well as the PS because it is not an uncommon practice in graduate admissions to have admissions consultants basically write a non-English speaker's PS. So, if my guess is right, try to get LORs that can testify to your English abilities. This might sound absurd to some, due to the publications track record, but it is also not uncommon to be able to publish in certain fields without great English skills, either because of the material itself (math heavy, etc.), or because the writer uses extensive editing services.

One final consideration: I suspect it is harder for non-native English speakers to hit in the high 170s on the LSAT.

This is, of course, conjecture, and only holds if I'm right about the English issue.

dreamer wrote:Undergraduate: a regional college
GPA: 3.85
Graduate: PhD in a top school (Not Ivy)
GPA: 4.05
LSAT: 171
Not URM
3 first author publications
Several co-author publications
Do I have any chance in YHS?

Not really enough data to give a real answer... was the undergraduate degree and graduate degree in English or Nuclear Physics... there are differences that could make you more or less likely, but just looking at numbers doesn't really mean much. Just look at the top LSAT and GPA cluster at Yale... less than 1/3 of the ones applying with those numbers were admitted... So even if you had number that were as high as the top cluster you would still only have a 33% chance... your numbers would put you at between 20-25% chance... but those are just numbers and they don't give as good a indication as what isn't in the numbers like the actual degree... the actual college... the actual subject of the book.... lots of little bits that could make someone say yes you have a great shot or no you better not waste your application fee.

You don't even give any clue as to what you mean by do I have a chance.... for some people knowing that their number gave them a 33% chance they would say "hell, why waste the money I'll never get in." where other that saw only a 5% chance would feel that those odds were good enough.