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180 / 2.2 / Not-URM / WE 2 Years

I posted on this forum a year ago explaining my situation. (Basically a family member was dealing with a terminal illness during my college years) Since college (2008) I have retaken the LSAT (was 175 in 2006) and have now been at my science job for almost two years with a paper published.

Law school is my goal, but I don't know if I should apply this cycle. I haven't worked on my applications/addendum at all and my current work load prevents me from putting in the time I want into the application process. I can probably get them in by mid-November. Is that too late for T14/T50 schools? (I know the deadlines are in December, but I figure doing it last minute lowers my chances and kills any EA opportunity) Do I even have a chance at T14?

My plan now is to apply to some schools in the TTT and low T50 who might consider me and use that to gauge my application for the next cycle. Is that a good idea?

I would appreciate any constructive answers.

Thanks. Jack

Out of curiosity, why do you want to leave a science job at which you've been pretty successful (publishing papers)?

Your job prospects out of a TTT or low T-50 might not compare to what you've already got.

I really don't like science and money is not my motivating factor for law school.

Ask for fee waivers everywhere, then apply to the ones you get. Can't hurt.

Forgive my curiosity but why did you retake a 175? Obviously it worked out for you, but the safe money would have said that you had far better chance of dropping to a 172 or something than upping it to the 180. Congrats on the score regardless though.

Well a few of the schools I was looking at said my score was too old for this cycle and most schools won't accept it next cycle. Since I had a few weeks spare time this summer I just got down and took it. I figure I had nothing to lose and luckily I was right.

What do you mean by N-URM? Non? Native American?

Somebody said that a 2.2/170ish got into NU this cycle and then their profile was removed (from LSN). This is probably the most extreme split out there and I don't think that anybody can give you a realistic expectation of what to come. What things will hinge in is how the AdComms interpret your GPA addendum and I have no idea how they will. I don't think you need to dip below the second tier, but I could be wrong and overly optimistic.

Edited, N-URM = Not-URM.

I agree, I doubt stat websites (like LSN) would give any accurate predictions because I am an outlier. I guess my question is would it be a good idea to apply to more than my safety schools this cycle, if I don't have any time to prep my applications?

hundredbottlesofbeer wrote:Edited, N-URM = Not-URM.

I agree, I doubt stat websites (like LSN) would give any accurate predictions because I am an outlier. I guess my question is would it be a good idea to apply to more than my safety schools this cycle, if I don't have any time to prep my applications?

If you're not going to actually go to school next fall, I don't see a point in applying this cycle. Some AdComms may love your story and accept you despite the GPA, some may not. I don't think any definitive list can really be had here even if you "test the waters" so to speak.

Wow, even more of a splitter than me.

I think you have a great shot at some very good schools. I definitely think NU is an option. You can point to your record of publishing academic work to demonstrate your academic and writing ability.

I'm not saying your GPA doesn't exist, because it does, and it'll put you out at a lot of schools. But there are a lot more 4.0s than 180s out there.

If you're going to apply third tier, then you should go whole hog and apply to good schools as well. Honestly, a personal statement you spent 6 hours on is not going to get you declined at very many schools where a PS you spent 40 hours on would get you accepted.

Just a thought, and I don't know if this would actually work: Why not take a year and take 3 or 4 community college courses that you ace? LSAC will calculate those into your GPA and it'll raise it a bit. Again, I don't know that they'll use college courses taken after you completed a bachelor's degree. I do know that they insisted on counting classes I took at a community college while I was still in HS (luckily, it raised my LSAC GPA).

On the other hand, I'd imagine that 180 will get you pretty far early in the cycle. That'll give adcomms the latitude to accept someone with a great GPA, but lowish LSAT who they really like. I know a couple years ago someone got into both Michigan and NYU with a 2.7/180. So, it can be done.

thrillhouse wrote:Just a thought, and I don't know if this would actually work: Why not take a year and take 3 or 4 community college courses that you ace? LSAC will calculate those into your GPA and it'll raise it a bit. Again, I don't know that they'll use college courses taken after you completed a bachelor's degree. I do know that they insisted on counting classes I took at a community college while I was still in HS (luckily, it raised my LSAC GPA).

On the other hand, I'd imagine that 180 will get you pretty far early in the cycle. That'll give adcomms the latitude to accept someone with a great GPA, but lowish LSAT who they really like. I know a couple years ago someone got into both Michigan and NYU with a 2.7/180. So, it can be done.

They won't include credits after the granting of the bachelor's.

This will all depend on your application packet and how broadly you apply. I think if you nail your personal statement, and focus it on what you've learned and demonstrated since graduating college, and write a brief, factual GPA addendum outlining the factors impacting your GPA, you'll find adcomms in at least some schools moved by your story enough to give you an admission.

You're going to need to pick some schools to ED at. I'm talking T14 here. I'd suggest something like Penn first and then UVA (since UVA keeps their ED cycle open longer). You stand a real chance of getting into a T14 as a splitter if you can nail your application perfectly.

You should also apply to the midwest mid-T1 schools (WUSTL, UIUC, IU-B, etc.) that are well-known for taking splitters. You're more extreme, but a 180 will attract the attention of one, and they tend to even give scholarship $$$ to high-LSAT splitters.

Good luck.

I agree with vanwinkle on EDing to T14 100%, but I would look at Northwestern. OP has their preferred 2 years of work experience, they are more splitter friendly than UVA or Penn, and they've been taking some splitters in the mid 170s with 2.8/2.7/2.6s the past few years when they ED. Not as low as OP, but the admits seem more consistent for sub-3.0 EDs who test 170+. Last year, 2/2 such applicants were accepted at NW compared to 0/1 at Penn and 1/3 at UVA on LSN. (The downside, of course, is that their ED agreement prohibits you from EDing anywhere else if they deny you.)

Also, please don't say you don't like science on your application. If you are eligible for the patent bar, there is a slight boost. And regardless of whether you're EDing to a particular school, apply early. As in, stop what you're doing and outline your statements now.

The reason I didn't suggest Northwestern is the prohibition on EDing elsewhere. OP will need to keep options open a little more with a GPA that low.

vanwinkle wrote:The reason I didn't suggest Northwestern is the prohibition on EDing elsewhere. OP will need to keep options open a little more with a GPA that low.

He also doesn't seem to care whether he goes this cycle, so EDing NU and then waiting a year if it doesn't work is not a bad option.

Woozy wrote:

vanwinkle wrote:The reason I didn't suggest Northwestern is the prohibition on EDing elsewhere. OP will need to keep options open a little more with a GPA that low.

He also doesn't seem to care whether he goes this cycle, so EDing NU and then waiting a year if it doesn't work is not a bad option.

That's a good point. You've changed my mind.

Woozy wrote:

vanwinkle wrote:The reason I didn't suggest Northwestern is the prohibition on EDing elsewhere. OP will need to keep options open a little more with a GPA that low.

He also doesn't seem to care whether he goes this cycle, so EDing NU and then waiting a year if it doesn't work is not a bad option.

What I do not understand is how one would expect, possibly with the exception of a different ED, that things would change when one's numbers stay the same and the only difference is a marginal increase in w/e (going from 2 to 3)?

bk187 wrote:

Woozy wrote:

vanwinkle wrote:The reason I didn't suggest Northwestern is the prohibition on EDing elsewhere. OP will need to keep options open a little more with a GPA that low.

He also doesn't seem to care whether he goes this cycle, so EDing NU and then waiting a year if it doesn't work is not a bad option.

What I do not understand is how one would expect, possibly with the exception of a different ED, that things would change when one's numbers stay the same and the only difference is a marginal increase in w/e (going from 2 to 3)?

The waiting a year isn't for an additional year of WE, it's because NU won't let him ED anywhere else if he EDs there and he'd have to wait for another cycle to ED anywhere else.

vanwinkle wrote:The waiting a year isn't for an additional year of WE, it's because NU won't let him ED anywhere else if he EDs there and he'd have to wait for another cycle to ED anywhere else.

That I understand. I had misremembered the OP's post and thought he said something along the lines of "feeler" apps being the reason for delaying a year, not getting his statements together.

Seems like, if the OP actually cannot put together statements in time, he should at least put together okay ones, apply to NU ED only and then if that doesn't work apply broadly and double-dip ED next year with a broad selection of safeties.