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For T14 schools, what point/transition is vitally important? It seems like there is usually a wall of reds vs. yellows/greens at some schools between 169 and 170. Or could you argue that 170->171 is more important?

What is greatest difference between 3 points? 168->171? 167->170

I am asking this because I want to know if I should retake my 170; I'm PTing a bit higher and I have a GPA lower than all their floors. (however, I am engineering)

Good question. Unfortunately the correct answering of 3 additional questions is metaphorically similar to the the Porsche Carerra versus the Porsche Carrera S. (350 versus 380 horsepower and more power and performance than the average driver can use) It's pure style. Intellectually the 168 is the same as 171, but in defense of the admission process, they must use something to objectively distinguish between candidates when so few positions at 'premium' law schools are available. The 2 percentage points in the long run may set the tone for those not accepted the balance of their lives, but what are we to do.

For the record my LSAT is a lowly 160. Funny, if a baseball player hit 80% we'd check for 'roids'!

2011Cycle wrote:Good question. Unfortunately the correct answering of 3 additional questions is metaphorically similar to the the Porsche Carerra versus the Porsche Carrera S. (350 versus 380 horsepower and more power and performance than the average driver can use) It's pure style. Intellectually the 168 is the same as 171, but in defense of the admission process, they must use something to objectively distinguish between candidates when so few positions at 'premium' law schools are available. The 2 percentage points in the long run may set the tone for those not accepted the balance of their lives, but what are we to do.

For the record my LSAT is a lowly 160. Funny, if a baseball player hit 80% we'd check for 'roids'!

what?

sophia.olive wrote:

2011Cycle wrote:Good question. Unfortunately the correct answering of 3 additional questions is metaphorically similar to the the Porsche Carerra versus the Porsche Carrera S. (350 versus 380 horsepower and more power and performance than the average driver can use) It's pure style. Intellectually the 168 is the same as 171, but in defense of the admission process, they must use something to objectively distinguish between candidates when so few positions at 'premium' law schools are available. The 2 percentage points in the long run may set the tone for those not accepted the balance of their lives, but what are we to do.

For the record my LSAT is a lowly 160. Funny, if a baseball player hit 80% we'd check for 'roids'!

what?

get off the bottle

DMXdawg wrote:For T14 schools, what point/transition is vitally important? It seems like there is usually a wall of reds vs. yellows/greens at some schools between 169 and 170. Or could you argue that 170->171 is more important?

What is greatest difference between 3 points? 168->171? 167->170

I am asking this because I want to know if I should retake my 170; I'm PTing a bit higher and I have a GPA lower than all their floors. (however, I am engineering)

Whichever point puts you above their median.

DMXdawg wrote:For T14 schools, what point/transition is vitally important? It seems like there is usually a wall of reds vs. yellows/greens at some schools between 169 and 170. Or could you argue that 170->171 is more important?

What is greatest difference between 3 points? 168->171? 167->170

I am asking this because I want to know if I should retake my 170; I'm PTing a bit higher and I have a GPA lower than all their floors. (however, I am engineering)

How much higher are you PTing?
I dunno if I would retake a 170 just for 1 point..... especially since there's a chance you might lose points as well.

2011Cycle wrote:Good question. Unfortunately the correct answering of 3 additional questions is metaphorically similar to the the Porsche Carerra versus the Porsche Carrera S.

What?

2011Cycle wrote:(350 versus 380 horsepower and more power and performance than the average driver can use)

Okay, I think I see what's going on here...

2011Cycle wrote:It's pure style. Intellectually the 168 is the same as 171,

Nevermind.

2011Cycle wrote:but in defense of the admission process, they must use something to objectively distinguish between candidates when so few positions at 'premium' law schools are available. The 2 percentage points in the long run may set the tone for those not accepted the balance of their lives, but what are we to do.

Nope.

2011Cycle wrote:For the record my LSAT is a lowly 160. Funny, if a baseball player hit 80% we'd check for 'roids'!

Again, no. Percentile does not mean percentage right.

Don't you have another thread asking about the difference between a 160 and a 170?

179->180

You can claim you're perfect in everything you do with a 4.0 + 180 to YHS. That's assuming you got a 180 with zero questions wrong, of course. That'd be my soft: "Perfection".

I'm gonna go with the jump from 169 to 170, just because it looks better and I like to toot my own horn.

(But seriously, the guy who said whichever point puts you above a school's median is TCR).

DMXdawg wrote:For T14 schools, what point/transition is vitally important? It seems like there is usually a wall of reds vs. yellows/greens at some schools between 169 and 170. Or could you argue that 170->171 is more important?

What is greatest difference between 3 points? 168->171? 167->170

I am asking this because I want to know if I should retake my 170; I'm PTing a bit higher and I have a GPA lower than all their floors. (however, I am engineering)

You should be aiming for 3 points or higher for retakes. If you are consistently PT'ing around 173+, I would definitely think long and hard about retaking.

I would say one of the biggest differences in 3 points is a 165->168. With a good GPA the latter will have you probably somewhere in the T14 while the former means you will probably be in the 20-30 range. A lot of the important gaps depend on the GPA though. For splitters there is a pretty big difference between 167-->170

Richie Tenenbaum wrote:You should be aiming for 3 points or higher for retakes.

+1. If you don't feel confident your score was at least 3 points below your true score, then you're risking a lot. (And keep in mind that people frequently test slightly below their preptests.) A 170 generally gets you into a great school, so long as you don't have worse than a B average or so. So just apply early and play up your softs at splitter-friendly schools.

And if your results start coming back and you still want to retest, you can always do so in Febraury to help you get of a waitlist at anywhere where your 170/? isn't quite enough. With a 170 and asking how much 1-3 points will change your chances, I think the best thing to do is to get an offer from a top school in hand first, then decide if you still want to retest.

Also, if you tell us your GPA, we could give you some more specific advice.

I have a 3.3. I am willing to go to UVA/Duke/NU/Texas sticker. I'm pretty sure I'm going to apply to UVA 9/1. (ED) I am also for sure retaking the LSAT in October. I've definitely improved since my last LSAT sitting (based on my PT results, +/-175), and I should've gotten higher- I read the mulch game wrong for about 10 minutes and missed 2 on that game; I'm usually-0 on LG.

It seems like being patent eligible is a boost now more than ever, at least for OCI.

bk187 wrote:Whichever point puts you above at their median.

FIFY

From what I can tell, the difference between at 169 and 170 is so overstated. You're in play at the exact same schools. 170 isn't likely to put you T6, and 169 won't keep you out of the T10. If you're trying to crack T6, I think the biggest difference is 171/2. With a 171, you probably need 75th+% GPA, but with a 172, there seems to be a lot more leeway with NYU and Chicago.

granger wrote:From what I can tell, the difference between at 169 and 170 is so overstated. You're in play at the exact same schools. 170 isn't likely to put you T6, and 169 won't keep you out of the T10.

This depends on GPA. If your GPA is below T10 schools' medians, then a 169 will in fact keep you out of the T10. For example, someone with a 3.2 GPA has practically no shot at the T10 with a 169, but can ED to one of a few different T10 schools and stand a decent chance of getting in with a 170 or above.

If your GPA is a 3.95, then yes, the difference in LSAT scores is (slightly) overstated, but that's because you have something else that schools need.

166-> 167 seems to be particularly significant, too.

vanwinkle wrote:If your GPA is below T10 schools' medians, then a 169 will in fact keep you out of the T10. For example, someone with a 3.2 GPA has practically no shot at the T10 with a 169

The first statement is false, but the second is true. A 169 with a sub-3.2 GPA has a very low chance of admission to the T10, but it does happen when the applicant is sufficiently persuasive.

vanwinkle wrote:

granger wrote:From what I can tell, the difference between at 169 and 170 is so overstated. You're in play at the exact same schools. 170 isn't likely to put you T6, and 169 won't keep you out of the T10.

This depends on GPA. If your GPA is below T10 schools' medians, then a 169 will in fact keep you out of the T10. For example, someone with a 3.2 GPA has practically no shot at the T10 with a 169, but can ED to one of a few different T10 schools and stand a decent chance of getting in with a 170 or above.

If your GPA is a 3.95, then yes, the difference in LSAT scores is (slightly) overstated, but that's because you have something else that schools need.

Sure, but a 170/3.2 still is a long shot, and the biggest jump shouldn't just be splitter-specific, IMO. 171 is 75th percentile for a bunch of T10 schools, so I think that affords a general T14 candidate the biggest boost.

FWIW, I got into UVA. Thanks for the help, guys!

DMXdawg wrote:FWIW, I got into UVA. Thanks for the help, guys!

Congratulations!