Top Law Schools

Long time lurker, first time poster.

I went to a top 10 private university, and graduated with a 3.8. I'm halfway through with a two year contract at one of the most respected corporate m&a firms in New York (if only the prestige of the firm somehow conferred prestige on paralegals...).

I took the lsat twice, scoring a 163 the first time and a 168 the second. (I will be attaching a brief addendum addressing the compelling reasons why the first score should be ignored.).

Very strong soft factors include two publications (I'm either the only or primary author.) in journals. Other factors include supported language study & other scholarships, time working at a public interest law firm in beijing, and too many more to list.

I'm trying to decide where to apply early. I think Columbia is too high, but would love to go there for the center for the study of chinese law. NYU seems *marginally* more attainable, but am I deluding myself?

Applying regular descision to the usual suspects (top 15-17, excluding Yale.).

Thoughts?

thereelshaq wrote:Long time lurker, first time poster.

I went to a top 10 private university, and graduated with a 3.8. I'm halfway through with a two year contract at one of the most respected corporate m&a firms in New York (if only the prestige of the firm somehow conferred prestige on paralegals...).

I took the lsat twice, scoring a 163 the first time and a 168 the second. (I will be attaching a brief addendum addressing the compelling reasons why the first score should be ignored.).

Very strong soft factors include two publications (I'm either the only or primary author.) in journals. Other factors include supported language study & other scholarships, time working at a public interest law firm in beijing, and too many more to list.

I'm trying to decide where to apply early. I think Columbia is too high, but would love to go there for the center for the study of chinese law. NYU seems *marginally* more attainable, but am I deluding myself?

Applying regular descision to the usual suspects (top 15-17, excluding Yale.).

Thoughts?

Blatant anti-USC, WUSTL, GW.

No, but seriously, a lot of the top schools may be out of reach, unless you have made some meaningful connections at your firm and can get a great rec letter, which could help. It's also only August -- you could consider a retake. IMHO, if you can get 168, you can get above 170.

I'm actually applying to GW as a safety. As for USC and WUSTL, I went to school in the midwest and don't aspire to return. Even if I did, it would be to Chicago and not to St. Louis. I'd only move out West for Stanford or Boalt, so I don't see the point of applying to a school I would not want to go to. I'm also applying to Fordham and Cardozo as safeties, but welcome any other safety suggestions.

And, yes, I could take the test again, but the hours at my job have been only been getting worse (75-85 hours/week.). I prepped under these conditions before, and it's truly miserable; literally wake, go to work, go home, have two hours of time to study, go to sleep, repeat. I agree that I could have done better (and if I could go back a year and a half, I'd absolutely have taken it before graduating.), but I didn't. All water under the bridge now, though.

thanks for responding!

Columbia and NYU both look out with those numbers (oddly enough, NYU throws a bone to a 169 now and then, but this may have to do with the fact that 169 is their bottom 25% line). NYU in particular has a record of not looking favorably on multiple LSATs - there is evidence that they would take a 170/175 over a 172, but since your LSAT hurts their USWNR numbers your multiple will probably hurt even more. Being a reverse splitter is tough because good GPAs come a dime a dozen, and with you in particular you're below the 25% of many t10 schools*, with a GPA above the median but not above the 75%. You would do best applying to GPA heavy schools - Boalt, Duke, UCLA. Your realistic reaches are probably MVP; within the T14, Cornell and GULC will most likely also take you.

*This is particular sucky when you aren't a URM

HYSCCN are out. MVPB are targets, with Michigan being your most likely (and maybe Berk, since they like GPAs and seem to be a little less predictable than the others). Northwestern and Duke are probably targets as well, with Northwestern being more likely due to your WE. Your LSAT is on the low side for FT at GULC, but it could be a waitlist acceptance. Cornell thru Vandy are safe, with $$. Cornell is really your only safety in the T14.

Retake and get a 170+ and the middle T14 becomes an acceptance with money.

I would also do as many ED as are feasible. This will help your chances.

A buddy of mine w/ very similar numbers got 15k/yr from Mich. Just throwin' it out there...

Slimpee wrote:A buddy of mine w/ very similar numbers got 15k/yr from Mich. Just throwin' it out there...

I was just a *tad* higher than OP with my numbers, and I got $14k/year from Michigan.

Jarndyce wrote:

Slimpee wrote:A buddy of mine w/ very similar numbers got 15k/yr from Mich. Just throwin' it out there...

I was just a *tad* higher than OP with my numbers, and I got $14k/year from Michigan.

I am just a tad lower than OP (3.76 at time of application) and I applied ED. Still on the waitlist. And I know others in my numbers range fared about the same.

3.8/168 is far from safe for Michigan. Very attainable, but still not safe.

romothesavior wrote:

Jarndyce wrote:

Slimpee wrote:A buddy of mine w/ very similar numbers got 15k/yr from Mich. Just throwin' it out there...

I was just a *tad* higher than OP with my numbers, and I got $14k/year from Michigan.

I am just a tad lower than OP (3.76 at time of application) and I applied ED. Still on the waitlist. And I know others in my numbers range fared about the same.

3.8/168 is far from safe for Michigan. Very attainable, but still not safe.

And just to note about retaking -- 3.84 / 172 and I got half-ride at Michigan. So if you can handle the misery, getting over 170 could definitely open some doors.

If your cycle is anything like mine, you will end up with at Texas or Vandy with a half ride. 168/3.75.

So as a follow up question, where do you guys think an ED application would make a difference, if not at NYU/Columbia? Assuming, as before, very good and original soft factors, exceptional recs, and an application submitted on the first day the application season opens?

thereelshaq wrote:So as a follow up question, where do you guys think an ED application would make a difference, if not at NYU/Columbia? Assuming, as before, very good and original soft factors, exceptional recs, and an application submitted on the first day the application season opens?

Don't ED and shut yourself out of money. Paying full price for something that's not HYSCCN is not a good choice, in my opinion.

thereelshaq wrote:So as a follow up question, where do you guys think an ED application would make a difference, if not at NYU/Columbia? Assuming, as before, very good and original soft factors, exceptional recs, and an application submitted on the first day the application season opens?

I think you should ED with NYU and give it a shot. Check out this thread:
http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 2&t=125787

Here's what I found from that thread:
168, 3.9 in at NYU no ED:
http://lawschoolnumbers.com/chanchito

169, 3.81 in at NYU w/ ED:
http://lawschoolnumbers.com/taxman021

168, 3.97 in at NYU no ED:
http://lawschoolnumbers.com/ahossai1

168, 3.9 in at NYU no ED:
http://lawschoolnumbers.com/milou (apparently this is Tintin from TLS, maybe you can send them a PM)

168, 3.9 in at NYU no ED:
http://lawschoolnumbers.com/ndgrad05

168, 3.79 in at NYU no ED:
http://lawschoolnumbers.com/cattiger

168, 3.89 in at NYU no ED:
http://lawschoolnumbers.com/CaesarAugustus

A handful of people got into NYU with numbers similar to yours, with no ED. So if you apply ED, you have somewhat of a shot. I think it's worth it, this is likely your only chance to have more than a longshot chance at T6.

Pretty good info knockglock. An ED to NYU could work and is worth doing if you're not debt-averse.

rad law wrote:Pretty good info knockglock. An ED to NYU could work and is worth doing if you're not debt-averse.

Thanks, just trying to help out . I agree on the debt-averse point. You could get some scholarship money from a school ranked much less. I would personally take the shot at NYU sticker though.

My own application cycle made me fairly pessimistic, so I'm going to say that the highest school you stand a shot at is NU. Other than that, you may get in at Georgetown or Cornell, although I have a friend with your exact scores who was
WLed at GULC (but before I find myself corrected by over-enthusiastic LSAT preppers, a personal example doesn't indicate probability, only possibility). That said, you'll be paying full price across the T14. Just something to consider.

DanInALionsDen wrote:My own application cycle made me fairly pessimistic, so I'm going to say that the highest school you stand a shot at is NU. Other than that, you may get in at Georgetown or Cornell, although I have a friend with your exact scores who was
WLed at GULC (but before I find myself corrected by over-enthusiastic LSAT preppers, a personal example doesn't indicate probability, only possibility). That said, you'll be paying full price across the T14. Just something to consider.

Ehh, it seems you significantly underperformed on your cycle. Did you apply late? write a risky PS?

You should have at least seen at the bare minimum one acceptance at MVPBD, and you had a shot at CCN.

Knockglock wrote:

DanInALionsDen wrote:My own application cycle made me fairly pessimistic, so I'm going to say that the highest school you stand a shot at is NU. Other than that, you may get in at Georgetown or Cornell, although I have a friend with your exact scores who was
WLed at GULC (but before I find myself corrected by over-enthusiastic LSAT preppers, a personal example doesn't indicate probability, only possibility). That said, you'll be paying full price across the T14. Just something to consider.

Ehh, it seems you significantly underperformed on your cycle. Did you apply late? write a risky PS?

You should have at least seen at the bare minimum one acceptance at MVPBD, and you had a shot at CCN.

Applied late, and the 171 was my second LSAT after a 166. My personal statement was well written and non-risky. My recommendations were solid. Ultimately, due to my circumstances, I would probably have turned down all those other schools once GULC offered me a (nearly) full ride.

/highjacking thread.

DanInALionsDen wrote:

Knockglock wrote:

DanInALionsDen wrote:My own application cycle made me fairly pessimistic, so I'm going to say that the highest school you stand a shot at is NU. Other than that, you may get in at Georgetown or Cornell, although I have a friend with your exact scores who was
WLed at GULC (but before I find myself corrected by over-enthusiastic LSAT preppers, a personal example doesn't indicate probability, only possibility). That said, you'll be paying full price across the T14. Just something to consider.

Ehh, it seems you significantly underperformed on your cycle. Did you apply late? write a risky PS?

You should have at least seen at the bare minimum one acceptance at MVPBD, and you had a shot at CCN.

Applied late, and the 171 was my second LSAT after a 166. My personal statement was well written and non-risky. My recommendations were solid. Ultimately, due to my circumstances, I would probably have turned down all those other schools once GULC offered me a (nearly) full ride.

/highjacking thread.

Glad that things worked out for you in the end though .