Top Law Schools

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If you have a 3.7-171, you have no chance at any of them, perhaps absent earth-shattering softs.

Yes, people with those stats have chances, when they are Olympic athletes, nobel prize winners, Neurosurgeons, or the creator of google.

Harvard is the easiest, but you're out at all three.

Hardest/easiest isn't a very good way to distill the different schools. The three institutions seem to look for slightly different qualities in their applicants.

Or, to put it another way: If I were a 21 year old student with little going for me aside from a killer LSAT and GPA, then I'd feel safest applying to Harvard. If my GPA was sub-par but I were in my late twenties and had written a book that legal academics were generally familiar with, I'd probably feel safest applying to Yale.

Of the three Harvard is the most predictable.

ibdancin wrote:I know my numbers aren't good enough, but I'm trying to figure out if I apply to one super reach, what one it should be?

Yale or Stanford, because they have a cheaper application fee than Harvard so you'll be throwing away less money.

FAIL! It's HYS, not YHS.

Thread noted in your file and forwarded to the appropriate parties.

notanumber wrote:Hardest/easiest isn't a very good way to distill the different schools. The three institutions seem to look for slightly different qualities in their applicants.

Or, to put it another way: If I were a 21 year old student with little going for me aside from a killer LSAT and GPA, then I'd feel safest applying to Harvard. If my GPA was sub-par but I were in my late twenties and had written a book that legal academics were generally familiar with, I'd probably feel safest applying to Yale.

Of the three Harvard is the most predictable.

This. Getting into Harvard may not necessarily be easier, but it's definitely the most predictable--which makes it the safer bet for applicants who can predict a small chance of admission.

If you hit both medians (3.9/173), then Harvard is almost a sure thing. If you have lower numbers (3.9/170) but excellent softs, then Stanford is the easiest. Yale looks for both high numbers and excellent softs, so it's obviously the hardest to get into.

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im_blue wrote:If you hit both medians (3.9/173), then Harvard is almost a sure thing. If you have lower numbers (3.9/170) but excellent softs, then Stanford is the easiest. Yale looks for both high numbers and excellent softs, so it's obviously the hardest to get into.

Basically the correct advice, with HLS being likely if you have the numbers, SLS being easier if you have lower numbers but great softs. However, HLS is def not a lock if you're at/above both medians... you a have a great shot but its not guaranteed.

Looking at the past couple of cycles a 3.9/173 is probably a 60% to 70% chance... far from a sure thing.

Patriot1208 wrote:Yes, people with those stats have chances, when they are Olympic athletes, nobel prize winners, Neurosurgeons, or the creator of google.

I'd say you have a shot if your intangibles are stellar. Other than that, you might plan on Duke, UVA or something of that stature (if you want money). If you don't mind paying a little more money, go for the entire top-20 and see what happens. You can go to UVA or Michigan, and maybe Northwestern if you have W.E. If you're a really good writer, shoot for HYS, you could get really lucky. Anything is possible. I think Harvard is your best shot of the three because it has bigger classes. YS...not good. If you can raise that score 5 points, then you'd have a shot at all three.

Harvard - the most presTTTigious diploma mill around.

scribelaw wrote:If you have a 3.7-171, you have no chance at any of them, perhaps absent earth-shattering softs.

"No chance" is too strong. At Yale last year there were 229 applicants in the 3.5-3.74 & 170-174 range, and 12 of them got in. That's a 5% chance.

If you have strong softs, it's definitely worth the gamble to apply.

I look at it this way. A YHS JD would certainly be worth $50,000 more to me than a JD from any other school. With a 5% chance of making it happen, the expected reward (statistically) from applying to Yale is a $2500 payoff. That means any application cost less than $2500 is a good deal.

voice of reason wrote:

scribelaw wrote:If you have a 3.7-171, you have no chance at any of them, perhaps absent earth-shattering softs.

"No chance" is too strong. At Yale last year there were 229 applicants in the 3.5-3.74 & 170-174 range, and 12 of them got in. That's a 5% chance.

I think you forgot about URMs...

IMO a 3.7/171 has no shot at HYS. That's well below both medians at HY (close to both 25th percentiles actually), and the GPA is too low for Stanford.

im_blue wrote:

voice of reason wrote:

scribelaw wrote:If you have a 3.7-171, you have no chance at any of them, perhaps absent earth-shattering softs.

"No chance" is too strong. At Yale last year there were 229 applicants in the 3.5-3.74 & 170-174 range, and 12 of them got in. That's a 5% chance.

I think you forgot about URMs...

IMO a 3.7/171 has no shot at HYS. That's well below both medians at HY (close to both 25th percentiles actually), and the GPA is too low for Stanford.

I agree URM status is important and a 3.7-171 is a longshot and the expected outcome of an app is rejection. But people do get into top law schools being below both medians, provided they have very strong softs.

At Yale, a majority of the people below both medians is not URM.

voice of reason wrote:

im_blue wrote:

voice of reason wrote:

scribelaw wrote:If you have a 3.7-171, you have no chance at any of them, perhaps absent earth-shattering softs.

"No chance" is too strong. At Yale last year there were 229 applicants in the 3.5-3.74 & 170-174 range, and 12 of them got in. That's a 5% chance.

I think you forgot about URMs...

IMO a 3.7/171 has no shot at HYS. That's well below both medians at HY (close to both 25th percentiles actually), and the GPA is too low for Stanford.

I agree URM status is important and a 3.7-171 is a longshot and the expected outcome of an app is rejection. But people do get into top law schools being below both medians, provided they have very strong softs.

At Yale, a majority of the people below both medians is not URM.

If someone with OP's numbers was an H legacy and had good softs, would that increase chances at all? Also, no one has seemed to ask about this in any other thread, but does having a family friend connection with influence on an adcomm board at a top school like H help at all if someone is very borderline?

ilovemulch wrote:If someone with OP's numbers was an H legacy and had good softs, would that increase chances at all? Also, no one has seemed to ask about this in any other thread, but does having a family friend connection with influence on an adcomm board at a top school like H help at all if someone is very borderline?

If it doesn't help, it's not really "influence," now is it?

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acrossthelake wrote:Harvard is the most numbers-driven, and in that sense, easiest to get into. Stanford <3's GPAs and doesn't value LSATs as much, so people with high LSATs, with slightly lower GPAs(less than 3.85) without stellar softs have slim chances at Stanford, but better shots at Harvard. Yale seems to want it all.

What would one say about OP stats + legacy status + connection at H?

ilovemulch wrote:

acrossthelake wrote:Harvard is the most numbers-driven, and in that sense, easiest to get into. Stanford <3's GPAs and doesn't value LSATs as much, so people with high LSATs, with slightly lower GPAs(less than 3.85) without stellar softs have slim chances at Stanford, but better shots at Harvard. Yale seems to want it all.

What would one say about OP stats + legacy status + connection at H?

I don't really know of any evidence that legacy matters in HLS admissions. I don't remember being asked about it.

mallard wrote:

ilovemulch wrote:

acrossthelake wrote:Harvard is the most numbers-driven, and in that sense, easiest to get into. Stanford <3's GPAs and doesn't value LSATs as much, so people with high LSATs, with slightly lower GPAs(less than 3.85) without stellar softs have slim chances at Stanford, but better shots at Harvard. Yale seems to want it all.

What would one say about OP stats + legacy status + connection at H?

I don't really know of any evidence that legacy matters in HLS admissions. I don't remember being asked about it.

I read something on their website that said people should note on their application if they are a legacy as it may be taken into account in borderline cases and each year it helps a few candidates, something along those lines. I guess that's my answer!

I might be remembering wrong. Anyway, I'm not sure 3.7x/171 is "borderline."

Harvard accepts the most candidates each year so it's probably the easiest overall. On the other hand I agree with what other people said about certain specific candidates having a better shot at Stanford. I don't really think anyone has a better shot at Yale than at HLS. If you have enough outstanding stuff to make yourself a good Yale candidate despite the numbers you probably have what it takes to be a good HLS candidate despite the numbers.

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