Top Law Schools

So to give you the scenario: I scored a 149 on my lsat without any prep (not by choice just have crazy schedule) and have an ok GPA 3.4 in a hard science major (Geology). I'm currently enrolled in school and will graduate in the fall, I run my own business, was a paralegal in the Army and graduated with honors from JAG school, and was also in a special operations unit that served in OEF. I know it was dumb to take the lsat without any prep but my day starts at 4am and isn't over until 11pm everyday (except for Sunday) so there really wasn't any time for me to study. That's between family, work, and school. I want to either apply to schools in the DC area or in New Orleans. That is where we have family connections and my wife can get a good job to be my sugar momma while I go through law school (hypothetically). I have been on the fence about taking the LSAT again but I really just do not have the time to study (I'm writing this during my 10min study break) and would be going in nearly as blind as the first time. I don't want to run the risk of going in as ill prepared as the first time and possibly scoring lower and schools seeing that. Oh, with my geology major I'm looking to concentrate in environmental law or energy law and the only schools in these areas that have programs in this field are GW, Tulane, and Loyola. Any helpful advice would be greatly appreciated, thanks

You need to study for this test, sorry. A 149 LSAT is as bad as not taking it because you're not going to law school either way.

Just to drive this point home, George Washington rejected everyone with your GPA who wasn't at least in the mid-160's. You might *possibly* be able to go to Loyola New Orleans, but it's by no means likely. Even their 25th percentile LSAT was a 150. No chance at Tulane, period.

My opinion should be taken with a grain of salt because I am by no means an expert here, but I think that you would have a shot at some schools you maybe couldn't get into otherwise. I don't know why people insist that you can't get in somewhere with a low lsat/gpa combo as somehow 25% of people get in some how with number below to the median. I would say that if you were competing with that lower 25%, URM's/people with great softs you would be competitive. That said, you should certainly retake because you have little too lose. Even if you just found a way to squeeze 50 hours of studying in, you could probably up that to the low to mid 150's. This would give you a decent shot anywhere in DC and New Orleans except Georgetown. If I was to bet I would say you get into at least one of Tulane, American, G mason if you could get around a 156. Even right now I think you have a far shot at Tulane, and a little better at Catholic in washington. Admittedly both significantly under 25 percent though.

I appreciate the input. Does anyone know if being a disabled veteran puts me in URM category?

I don't know why people insist that you can't get in somewhere with a low lsat/gpa combo as somehow 25% of people get in some how with number below to the median. I would say that if you were competing with that lower 25%,

I'm not saying someone "cannot" get in, but rarely will you find anyone with both numbers at or below the 25% averages.

As much as I hate to say it, softs come into play when it's between two people with similar numbers. For the most part, schools are not taking 3.4/149 over a 3.4/165 unless you won a gold medal or cured cancer. The military might help if you saw combat, but from what I hear, paralegals don't get into the mix.

If you cannot study for the test, how are you going to do it in school? They are both part of the process.

EDIT: disabled is another story..

You really need to retake. With even some studying you will do much better.

Me-a Culpa wrote:

I don't know why people insist that you can't get in somewhere with a low lsat/gpa combo as somehow 25% of people get in some how with number below to the median. I would say that if you were competing with that lower 25%,

I'm not saying someone "cannot" get in, but rarely will you find anyone with both numbers at or below the 25% averages.

As much as I hate to say it, softs come into play when it's between two people with similar numbers. For the most part, schools are not taking 3.4/149 over a 3.4/165 unless you won a gold medal or cured cancer. The military might help if you saw combat, but from what I hear, paralegals don't get into the mix.

If you cannot study for the test, how are you going to do it in school? They are both part of the process.

EDIT: disabled is another story..

Special ops might change things a hair too...

Me-a Culpa wrote:

I don't know why people insist that you can't get in somewhere with a low lsat/gpa combo as somehow 25% of people get in some how with number below to the median. I would say that if you were competing with that lower 25%,

I'm not saying someone "cannot" get in, but rarely will you find anyone with both numbers at or below the 25% averages.

As much as I hate to say it, softs come into play when it's between two people with similar numbers. For the most part, schools are not taking 3.4/149 over a 3.4/165 unless you won a gold medal or cured cancer. The military might help if you saw combat, but from what I hear, paralegals don't get into the mix.

If you cannot study for the test, how are you going to do it in school? They are both part of the process.

EDIT: disabled is another story..

Agreed, it is probably quite rare that someone with your numbers would get into a top 50, but I believe you have about a 10% shot at those mentioned above. However, you studying just a little should up your chances huge, 5 points is easy at the beginning, 10 is not uncommon what so ever. with a 159 and your softs, it is almost a guarantee you hit one top 50, and quite possible that you get a top 30.

These are helpful comments, I really appreciate it. If combat helps, then check that one too. I usually leave that out when I talk about my veteran status in fear of sounding like those morons who handed out supplies the whole time and tell all of there friends back home the were in a firefight everyday. But if it helps my nasty score then I have the paperwork to back it up. Does anyone know if vets sometimes include their DD214s(record of service) in the application to school?

Your options open up enormously with a 16* instead of a 14* or even 15*.

It's a huge difference.

RangerPhil wrote:So to give you the scenario: I scored a 149 on my lsat without any prep (not by choice just have crazy schedule) and have an ok GPA 3.4 in a hard science major (Geology).

End of story for me right here. Perhaps it's just my personal aversion to debt, but I'd feel awful taking out tens-of-thousands in student loans knowing that I could have earned a scholarship with a couple months worth of self-preparation. That would probably bother me every time I made a loan payment.

As a person who took it cold once, then improved 17 points when I prepped two years later, I'd say to wait it out and try to find some way to make enough time for it. Most people can go up 10 points or so with minimal preparation. It's getting the points after that which really takes a lot of time.

I agree. I think even a heartfelt personal statement explaining a low LSAT score due to a busy schedule is no excuse for many admissions offices. As a lawyer you will often have to manage a busy schedule and find time and show dedication to the work and profession. Take the time to devote yourself to the test and find time for it and then apply. It sounds like you have a lot going for you as far as work experience. You should really do yourself justice and retake it, you can get in somewhere great with a high score.

jason8821 wrote:My opinion should be taken with a grain of salt because I am by no means an expert here, but I think that you would have a shot at some schools you maybe couldn't get into otherwise. I don't know why people insist that you can't get in somewhere with a low lsat/gpa combo as somehow 25% of people get in some how with number below to the median. I would say that if you were competing with that lower 25%, URM's/people with great softs you would be competitive. That said, you should certainly retake because you have little too lose. Even if you just found a way to squeeze 50 hours of studying in, you could probably up that to the low to mid 150's. This would give you a decent shot anywhere in DC and New Orleans except Georgetown. If I was to bet I would say you get into at least one of Tulane, American, G mason if you could get around a 156. Even right now I think you have a far shot at Tulane, and a little better at Catholic in washington. Admittedly both significantly under 25 percent though.

if only some of that were true. At Tulane, GMU, American w/ a 156 = auto ding

lmeinke wrote:I agree. I think even a heartfelt personal statement explaining a low LSAT score due to a busy schedule is no excuse for many admissions offices. As a lawyer you will often have to manage a busy schedule and find time and show dedication to the work and profession. Take the time to devote yourself to the test and find time for it and then apply. It sounds like you have a lot going for you as far as work experience. You should really do yourself justice and retake it, you can get in somewhere great with a high score.

or any. well, there's cooley.

It sounds like you have a lot of serious commitments to attend to right now.

But it is worth considering the potential return on investment involved in retaking the LSAT. Is it possible to arrange your schedule to clear up time before the June or September LSAT?

It would probably even be worth it to you, if possible, to postpone the final classes needed for your graduation, or find a way to reduce temporarily your obligations to working at your business. Planning to begin Fall '11, push graduation back and spend that time studying for the LSAT instead.

I think the experiences of those on this board show that regardless of whether your "cold" score is 149, 159, or 169, a serious course of preparation will probably reap incredible benefits.

Check out the resources in the LSAT forum, find something that works for you, put in the time, and you can give yourself a good shot at good schools.

Retake.

gwuorbust wrote:

jason8821 wrote:My opinion should be taken with a grain of salt because I am by no means an expert here, but I think that you would have a shot at some schools you maybe couldn't get into otherwise. I don't know why people insist that you can't get in somewhere with a low lsat/gpa combo as somehow 25% of people get in some how with number below to the median. I would say that if you were competing with that lower 25%, URM's/people with great softs you would be competitive. That said, you should certainly retake because you have little too lose. Even if you just found a way to squeeze 50 hours of studying in, you could probably up that to the low to mid 150's. This would give you a decent shot anywhere in DC and New Orleans except Georgetown. If I was to bet I would say you get into at least one of Tulane, American, G mason if you could get around a 156. Even right now I think you have a far shot at Tulane, and a little better at Catholic in washington. Admittedly both significantly under 25 percent though.

if only some of that were true. At Tulane, GMU, American w/ a 156 = auto ding

lmeinke wrote:I agree. I think even a heartfelt personal statement explaining a low LSAT score due to a busy schedule is no excuse for many admissions offices. As a lawyer you will often have to manage a busy schedule and find time and show dedication to the work and profession. Take the time to devote yourself to the test and find time for it and then apply. It sounds like you have a lot going for you as far as work experience. You should really do yourself justice and retake it, you can get in somewhere great with a high score.

or any. well, there's cooley.

Again, I don't know a whole lot about the admissions process, but I do not believe that a 156 is an auto ding for all of those schools. I could reference the typical "Someone got into yale with a 155", but I know that is often not the case. However, I know at least a few people got into American with sub 160, they may have been URM but with his background, it seems he would get close to the same preference. I could be wrong, but I am positive that people are getting into the schools above with a sub 160, and I am also certain that a few will get in with even lower than a 155 and a gpa that is somewhere around a 3.5. Again probably URM with solid softs, but I still think he's got about a 1/4 in each one if he get's mid to high 150's which would be relatively easy given his starting point.

Why don't you take a year off after school to study for the LSAT?

I can't really tell if anyone answered this, but you are NOT a URM. URMs are only Puerto Rican, Mexican or Black.

Kiersten1985 wrote:I can't really tell if anyone answered this, but you are NOT a URM. URMs are only Puerto Rican, Mexican or Black.

And Native American.

Kiersten1985 wrote:I can't really tell if anyone answered this, but you are NOT a URM. URMs are only Puerto Rican, Mexican or Black.

Well, then can you explain how a low 15x latino got 25k from Illinois and fullride from Cardozo? Or another 148 latino got half scholly from lower T2? I've seen so many of these cases. It`s not just Mexcian or Puerto Rican, but all the latinos are receiving URM boost..

simple answer: retake

Yes.